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-   -   Schumacher Cougar SV 2WD Buggy (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37631)

Stevo 18-01-2010 09:09 AM

The info we have been given is it will be lipo down the centre.

Welshy40 18-01-2010 09:44 AM

Well Robin told me yesterday that if all goes well it should be put on the market in March. Kindof handy just before the season starts.

Gibbon666 18-01-2010 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332298)
haa haa... they got to of had that wrong... I mean, I B4FT is less than £200....

If it is £299 then it's still a cheaper way to go mid motor 2WD than a B4 + X6 conversion plus I like the fact that you are buying a 2WD mid, not a 2WD + a conversion kit. I'd guess that's where they aimed their price - to compete with the X6. That's IF it is £299.

But if your happy with a B4 FT then why change? I've got a B4 FT and I'm happy with it, but this new Cougar is still interesting and very, very tempting. Just waiting to see more details before making a decision.

mikeyscott 18-01-2010 10:34 AM

B4 still won at Petit...

DCM 18-01-2010 10:36 AM

I don't understand that philosophy, It is OK to be expensive, as it is cheaper than building an AC2 or an X-6, but, allegedly, far more expensive than a B4??

Gibbon666 18-01-2010 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyscott (Post 332373)
B4 still won at Petit...

I did say "I've got a B4 FT and I'm happy with it". I haven't said that there's anything wrong with a B4, but if it's mid motor that someone wants then the Cougar looks tempting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332374)
I don't understand that philosophy, It is OK to be expensive, as it is cheaper than building an AC2 or an X-6, but, allegedly, far more expensive than a B4??

I was trying to compare apples to apples - in this case mid motor competition 2WD to another mid motor Comp 2WD. Companies usually price to compete with something similar in the market. What else would Schumacher be aiming at than the X6?

DCM 18-01-2010 11:05 AM

Well, really, your not, if you want to compare like with like, then you have to compare new kit to new kit, not a conversion, so you have to compare it to the price of a B4, XXX, RB5 etc, as it don't matter where the weight is, it is a kit with no need to convert.

jimmy 18-01-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332374)
I don't understand that philosophy, It is OK to be expensive, as it is cheaper than building an AC2 or an X-6, but, allegedly, far more expensive than a B4??

240 quid for a standard B4 - thats how much they were when released. Compare the Cougar 6 years down the line with it's rumoured price, maybe it'll be cheaper than the rc10B5 that comes out in 2016? ;)

jimmy 18-01-2010 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332384)
Well, really, your not, if you want to compare like with like, then you have to compare new kit to new kit, not a conversion, so you have to compare it to the price of a B4, XXX, RB5 etc, as it don't matter where the weight is, it is a kit with no need to convert.


Steve - you're contradicting yourself there. You just said compare like for like - but the Schumacher isn't the same as those plastic chassis' cars? If Schumacher invest more and pump them out in mass volume we can all get a cheaper plastic car I'm sure. They could even make it look the same as those other three you mention - wouldn't that be awesome!:thumbsup:

DCM 18-01-2010 11:21 AM

wasn't commenting on how they are constructed, Jimbo, more that it is a complete kit, that you buy, and build, not buy, buy a conversion, and mix the two together. We could mention that like for like is the BMax and the B44...

Gibbon666 18-01-2010 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332384)
Well, really, your not, if you want to compare like with like, then you have to compare new kit to new kit, not a conversion, so you have to compare it to the price of a B4, XXX, RB5 etc, as it don't matter where the weight is, it is a kit with no need to convert.

As I said - I was comparing mid motor comp 2wd to mid motor comp 2wd. If you'd like to name some other mid motor 2WD non-conversion comp buggies then we can compare the prices of those. Like I said - I compared it to what I believe Schumacher are aiming at.

With it being a competition buggy, is the price tag very relevant. As long as it's not way over (£400+) then the people who really want one will find the money some way. If people are on a budget then it might not be the way to go (but racing isn't easy on a budget anyway), but people who are racing a lot will be spending more on race fees, petrol and other stuff.

If it is £299 then the street price will be lower - say £265 to £270. But this is all speculation as the price isn't confirmed.

And of course - if it comes out and doesn't do well - it won't sell. If it wins everything then people will buy it.

DCM 18-01-2010 11:44 AM

so buy that argument, as long as it is cheaper than making a new X6 Ellis Edition, thats ok, don't matter if it is well overpriced against the most competitive buggy out there, the B4?

Gibbon666 18-01-2010 12:02 PM

Yes, that's pretty much my point.

People buy the X6 don't they?

Everyone has their own preference. I'm sticking with my B4 until I get a proper look at the Cougar. Then we'll see - I might still stick with the B4 - there just isn't enough info yet to make a decision.

I take it you don't want me to reserve a Cougar for you then :D

Chris Doughty 18-01-2010 12:16 PM

there are a lot of people out there that don't really care about the price, also people that buy multiple cars in one season because they fancy a change too.

I think 50 quid here or there on the price of a competition level kit isn't going to put people off.

people will claim to be put off, but I'm sure they will have one.

don't underestimate human desire.

one thing... I wonder what wheel fitting it will have on the front...

DCM 18-01-2010 12:17 PM

I Will wait till I see the street price, I am looking for a 2wd, but I am not paying stupid money for it.

bigred5765 18-01-2010 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM (Post 332403)
so buy that argument, as long as it is cheaper than making a new X6 Ellis Edition, thats ok, don't matter if it is well overpriced against the most competitive buggy out there, the B4?

ste were have you been? the x6 is the most competative 2wd out there at the mo, look at the national results,well it will be till the new cougar is out,so yes its still cheaper than the best out there,:thumbsup:

James 18-01-2010 03:20 PM

Schumacher will fill an actual gap in the actual market; an off the shelf mid motored car at reasonable money that will definately be competitive, be available shortly and have good parts backup, what more could you ask for from them, good job i say :thumbsup:

bigred5765 18-01-2010 03:36 PM

agree with the man above well said james,

Darren Boyle 18-01-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smOkin (Post 332521)
Schumacher will fill an actual gap in the actual market; an off the shelf mid motored car at reasonable money that will definately be competitive, be available shortly and have good parts backup, what more could you ask for from them, good job i say :thumbsup:

Not quite sure, that there is the "gap" you emntion though James, "most" of that criteria is already filled and most of the rest that currently may not be is being worked on hard already.

The current crop of cars are reasonable value (and about to improve soon too), already have the great spares back up and are also available soon if not already (and I dont just mean an X6 before anyone says :p, B4, RB5, XXXCR all included too)

bigred5765 18-01-2010 03:48 PM

I think he was talking about a mid motored production car,thats the gap,

Darren Boyle 18-01-2010 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred5765 (Post 332534)
I think he was talking about a mid motored production car,thats the gap,

And soon there will be several!!! LOL :woot:

James 18-01-2010 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMS Racing (Post 332536)
And soon there will be several!!! LOL :woot:


Point proven then, there was a gap in the market ;)

You don't have to defend the X6, the car suits me perfectly :thumbsup:

Si Coe 18-01-2010 04:10 PM

What Darren is hinting at is that X Factory will be releasing complete car kits rather than conversions. Which would address that isue too. And also cost as much as a Cougar as well.


End of the day, price is determined by the market. Durangos aren't cheap, but they sell very well despite the fact you can get equivalent performance from a B44 for half the price. People are willing to pay that sort of money.

As I've always said - if you want a £299 2wd car, thats fine. The issue comes when you need a £299 2wd car to be competitive.

mikeyscott 18-01-2010 04:13 PM

I'm going to watching the market and see what happens.

I'm running a B4, XXCR and Cat SX at the moment, but an X Factory or Cougar is appealing, but as others say it all depends on cost.

Rocking Donkey 18-01-2010 05:05 PM

So was this new Schumacher running at the Petit? Lots of speculation, but very little information. Given that Schumacher are not exactly the form team in 2WD, I'm surprised that they haven't done a bit more public testing before release. I don't think they had so much to hide. If anyone on this forum was going to design a 2WD car for British tracks at the moment it would be designed with the motor in the middle, able to take LiPo sticks and with a strong diff (possibly geared?) to take all the power. It's not rocket science :-)

Mossy 18-01-2010 05:43 PM

The new Schumacher wasnt running at Petit no, and although no public testing has been completed, I can assure everyone that plenty of private testing has been.

I dont really understand the statement that Schumacher arent the form team in 2wd? Yes, they havent had a car in the 2wd market for the best part of 6 years, but when the Fireblade Evo was released it was more than competitive with the current cars that were out then - I made many National A's and won A final legs at meetings with it. I think Schumachers pedigree speaks for itself.

Price wise Im sure it will be more than competive with the current 2wd cars out there. Please dont speculate high prices when nothing has even been mentioned from the team in a official capacity.

Testing has gone well over the winter, and the cars public race debut its planned very soon. Im sure everyone will be as impressed with its performance as i have been.

Si

DCM 18-01-2010 05:49 PM

I have to agree with Simon, the Cougar and the 'Blade were always fast in the right hands, and I really hope the price is right, as I must admit, I would be very tempted!!!!

Now, how about some more sneak pics!!

David Church 18-01-2010 05:50 PM

The new 2wd was not there, but it will make an appearance very soon!

As far as the price goes, I don't understand what all this talk is about.
Schumacher are not going to over price this new 2wd, they want to sell as many as possible, but of course it will be more to start off, they have invested loads in a new 2wd and need to recoupe their investment. If they sell millions of these kits I am sure the price would drop at some stage.
Like Chris said, £50 here or there ain't gonna make a difference!!!
Hows about waiting to see what the price is, then moan, and go buy it as well:thumbsup:

bigred5765 18-01-2010 05:52 PM

it wasn't at the petite RC, why would they do public testing i see no point what so ever in that,I have seen it go in private testing and was amazed at how well it went round,and i think everyone will be well please with the layout,spec and overall performance, and cant wait to see it make it first public appearance, and as Simon said it will be soon yeah, cant wait but how soon si???

mikeyscott 19-01-2010 09:43 PM

I really look forward to seeing it and seeing it's results.

Kev B 19-01-2010 11:01 PM

From what i have seen so far it looks awesome, just cant wait to see the rest of it. ;)

ben 19-01-2010 11:02 PM

[QUOTE=bigred5765;332594]I have seen it go in private testingQUOTE]

It wasnt that private :p!!!
Photographic evidence :eh?:

JJC 27-01-2010 10:59 AM

More info on the Schuie site. :thumbsup:

http://www.racing-cars.com/images/co...k_ftq_1000.jpg

DCM 27-01-2010 11:04 AM

looking good, but could someone explain the front wishbone angle?

Chris Doughty 27-01-2010 11:08 AM

the front end looks the bollox! :thumbsup:

if the wishbone sweeps down (like a B4 rear wishbone - and these front wishbones) it gives the shock a relatively more 'layed down' angle than relative to horizontal, if the shocks are mounted on stand-off's (like the RC8) then the angle is less layed down compared to the horizontal.

ashleyb4 27-01-2010 11:09 AM

Hello im liking that....

A

DCM 27-01-2010 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net (Post 336742)
the front end looks the bollox! :thumbsup:

if the wishbone sweeps down (like a B4 rear wishbone - and these front wishbones) it gives the shock a relatively more 'layed down' angle than relative to horizontal, if the shocks are mounted on stand-off's (like the RC8) then the angle is less layed down compared to the horizontal.

ta fella!!

Yoldume 27-01-2010 11:13 AM

wouldnt the front arm angle make ride height settings more difficult to get right by eye ?

as in arms level etc cos thwn they are level theres stil the bend in the arms

IceMike 27-01-2010 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleyb4 (Post 336744)
Hello im liking that....

A


you cant losi boy!!

mikeyscott 27-01-2010 11:26 AM

I like it, but will see how it does on track.


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