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im not sure what year cells i have, i thought i had the new worlds smc 42s?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southwell (Post 50591)

The last thing we need is more power from our cells though imo.

personally id say power is irelevent, they need to be safe 1st

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopite (Post 50601)

aren't this year's IB4200's different to last year's? If i'm wrong, then please correct me, but i was led to believe that this year's cells are far more 'highly strung' so to speak, which would explain the temporamentality of them i suppose

yours havent exactly been the most reliable have they stanny boy? :(

Received this e-mail of Paul Worsley earlier on.

Hi Mark,

Just been reading the posts regarding your cell going 'bang'.

Quite simply, you were charging them outside the manufacturers recommendations.
The data sheet supplied by Intellect clearly states :- Maximum charge rate 1C
That means that you should never charge at more than 4.2 amps.

The recommendations from any of the 'matchers' is always dubious, as they did not produce the cell.

The correct rate of charge for cells is ambiguous in many cases.
Example :- GP 4300 cells clearly state on the cell that they should be charged at 0.41 amp (410 ma.) and should not be soldered.
However their data sheet states that the cell can be charged up to 6 amps.
So if one goes bang when charging at 6 amps, would it be recognised that they have been misused ??
My guess is that in a court of law, the instructions on the cell would be the ruling factor.

Intellect do not state any charging recommendations on the actual cell.
I have advised them several times that this is not good practice and they could be liable for any claims, as their product does not state how it should be used.

I think that common sense dictates that cells should never be charged at more than 1C (4.2 Amps)
I would be concerned at anything over 5 Amps. The cells should never be 're-peaked'.

A further consideration is the nature of NiMH cells. MiMh cells 'self discharge' at varying amounts.
The gives the situation :-
If cells have been stored in a charged condition and unused for a period of time, the capacity remaining in the cells can vary greatly. When the cells are then charged, the charger cannot always accommodate this variation and some cells can be greatly over-charged.

Touring Car drivers often charge at 7, 8 and even higher amps, and as a result they have more cells go 'bang' than Off-Road drivers.

Hope this helps,

Paul Worsley. (Cell homologation officer)

Hope this ok to post Jimmy and Paul.

I think the moral of the story is equalise before you charge;)

And then charge at 10 amps :D

but i do!! i give them a good seeing to on the novak smart tray before each charge, and they still pack in!

bring back 1400scr's, they were mint

1200 SCEs, now they kept you entertained!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobe (Post 50614)

good info Paul!

i was dissapointed with my IB cells as well. i never had any explode but i bought a couple of brand new packs and one is venting after only a handful of charges. this is making me think that i did a big mistake and should have just gotten one lipo instead of 2 6 cells. i also have a few GP cell packs which are over 2 seasons old and still arent venting although they dont charge to full capacity i still get crazy voltage from them and no venting.

I have found venting happened on the first charge or two, then nothing since.

It appears we are all using the wrong cells then.......

Think you are getting the highest voltage out of your IB4200WE's? have you ever looked at the EP4200 cells? much more reliable than the IB's and the voltages are....... well buy some from demon an see for yourself, £32.50 for an assembled matched pack :cool: ask if you want to read my review on them, bit wordy but most things you need to know.

Are the EP 4200 Cells BRCA Legal?

YES see below

it's in the EB section of BRCA

Quote:

26th. June 2007.

East Power SC4200 NiMH Cell.

The above mentioned cell was approved by the BRCA Electric Board (EB) for use at BRCA sanctioned events in January this year. As dictated by BRCA rules, any new cell added to the list in January, does not become legal for use until April 1st of that year.
In Recent weeks, it has come to the attention of the (EB), that cells sold in UK since their inclusion on the approved list, differ from the sample that was originally approved in December 2006. The difference being the colour of the fibre disc that surrounds the positive button. The colour of this disc is clearly stated on the approved list as being RED. The cells that have been shipped from East Power during this year have a Black disc.
The BRCA (EB) wish to make it clear, that prior to this announcement, the cells with the Black disc do not comply with the approved list as published and therefore have not been considered as legal to use at BRCA sanctioned events.
The BRCA (EB) is aware that Black disc cells have been sold to customers with the advice that they are ‘BRCA legal’. This statement is incorrect. The BRCA (EB) hold the cell manufacturers and UK importers as being solely responsible for this misrepresentation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The change of colour to the ‘button disc’ was not known to the (EB) until early April. Since then, the (EB) has been conducting an investigation of the East Power 4200 cell to establish the true facts. This has involved many calls/mails to many countries, with the true facts only being revealed late last week.
When the East Power 4200 cell was submitted for approval, our investigation revealed that East Power quoted two variations of the same cell. When contacted, East Power were not forthcoming with any means of identification of the two types, but we recognised that they had cells with two different colours of ‘button disc’. The (EB) therefore described the visual appearance of the cell on the approved list exactly as the samples submitted, as we have in similar cases when cells are known to have variations.
The information eventually received last week from the manufacturer has confirmed that the BLACK disc version has a different design and/or materials from the original RED disc samples submitted.
During the time that it has taken to establish these facts, the (EB) have consulted with all the BRCA Electric Sections and in the interest of the competitors, have not objected to the cells being used whilst the irregularity was investigated and a final decision of legality made.
With the facts now known, the (EB) contacted the representatives from each of the Electric Sections that use the BRCA approved cell list, for agreement on if the East Power 4200 cell with the Black disc will be allowed. We have taken into consideration that :-
a) Many of these cells have been purchased in UK. b) All cells that have been shipped to UK since approval have been of the same type.
The four Sections involved have unanimously agreed, that whilst the East Power 4200 cell with Black disc does not technically comply with the (EB) approved cell list, in the interests of the competitors that have purchased these cells and the sport overall, they will be allowed.
To confirm :- The East Power SC 4200 cell with Black button disc will be considered legal for use at BRCA sanctioned events as from 26.06.07.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTES :- The above action has been decided in the best interests of the competitors. Under no circumstances does this set any precedent for any similar variation of approved cells from any manufacturer in the future. The (EB) are looking to amend the wording of the rules governing cell approval for the future.
A similar situation exists with the approval of the East Power 4200 cell within the EFRA organisation. To date, EFRA has not decided if the cell with the Black disc will be allowed at EFRA sanctioned events.

Paul Worsley. (Secretary & Tech. Officer, BRCA Electric Board)

Hi sorry to inturrupt but got a question here since its about cells. How do you find out that a cell has gone bad in a battery pack? Can i use a multimeter and put to voltage setting to check each cell? Or is there any better device? Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodom (Post 51797)

How do you find out that a cell has gone bad in a battery pack? Can i use a multimeter and put to voltage setting to check each cell? Or is there any better device? Thanks

see How to here

you don't need a Pro-Trak, you can use a DVM & your charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

:( I bought 6 sets of ready assembled EP 4200 Mk II's from Modeltech and as I did not use them immediately I thought it best to discharge them and equalise them before their first charge.

The first 2 sets discharged without and problem but half way through discharging the 3rd pack there was an almighty bang and one cell had exploded across my living room floor, fortunately no one was hurt.

The other 3 sets discharged without any problem and I immediately telephoned Mike at Modeltech and told him what had happened. As instructed I returned the remains and the rest of the pack to him as requested. He was most concerned and apologised stating that they'd had no problems with the EP's, although another club member had one exploded whilst charging (don't know at what settings).

I said there was no need to apologise as he had no way of seeing inside these cells and he duly returned the pack with the defective cell replaced.

Although I never charge at more than 5 amps, with my driving more power isn't exactly needed, I could have understood it more if it had been charging but discharging!

I bought the EP's due to all the scare stories with the IB's and whilst a lot less frequent it would appear the EP's are not totally immune from problems.

I've not had any problems since, although they've only been used for one meeting, and hats off to Mike at Modeltech for standing by what he sells and sorting it so quickly.:)

There not perfect, no cell is but i have put mine through a fair few cycles so far (only ever discharged in the car so far, no equalising tray ATM) and nothing hase ever gone wrong.

What kind of numbers are you getting on the labels Gramey?

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

Dont no how you can say that the EP's are more reliable ????? i have had my IB3800 for well over a year now, and thats using them indoor and outdoor regionals plus club racing and they still have mega punch plus duration
How long have you had the EP's for and how many events

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramey (Post 51857)

Gramey
I got 5 sets of IB3800 and discharged plus equalized them as soon as i got them, ive had mine now for well over a year, and they still have loads of punch in them, ive had no problems what so ever