As a 90's racer I firmly agree with you there Matt, however as a permanent layout we must consider the implications at grass roots level as well as Nationals etc.

Imagine a newbie comes along, breaks their car first couple of visits on our spectacular feature jump and never comes back. We lose a potential member, the track gets 'car breaker' reputation, people stay away, club folds.

Of course this is an exaggerated worst case scenario, but this is a *big* jump of the 'must land on the downside' variety at the far end of the track, and that is simply going to be beyond the abilities of a lot of club level racers. Taking the 'soft option' will come with a time penalty as opposed to a DNF and yet the top guys will be unaffected at the big events.

big jumps don't break cars, bad landings do!

look at this way matt:
your a newcomer to the sport,turn up at your first meeting and break you car 4 times out of 4 races because a jump is inconsistent and too severe for newcomers..you will soon get fed up,the only way to learn how to do jumps is to practice them,but you cant practice them if everytime you get it slightly wrong it costs you money in new parts,thats not the way to keep members happy.

a jump can be made so that if you want to short jump it you can and land safely,or fly it and gain a little time,tabletops are excellant for this reason.

and jumps should never be on a fast part of the track(straight)..remember the newbie when he slows down to take the jump slower...and you hit him at twice the speed.

yes jumps should be challenging,but also be easy enough for the lesser skilled to be able to jump slower.

dave

perfect jumps (and far bigger than burys)


http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/euros.../dayone003.jpg

I understand where everyone is coming from and accept the comments. But I will stick to my personal opinion. Taking up on the grass roots racing thought I suppose its a bit different now as instead of 1300mah batteries and stock motors as an introduction to the sport the modern batts and motors even the cheap items are relativly fast and as all know the faster you go the quicker you break things. I am writing blind here as I didn't make it to Bury the other weekend, but am going to have a look this sunday.
From peoples comments on this new double I cant wait to have a go before its made girlie!!!!!:cool:

Jimmy, now thats a track!!!

I'm very curious to see this now, seems to have generated a fair ammount of comment, I assume it's where the grass was at the bottom on the hill, in front of the pit-cabin
The double that was built 4 years ago was in a wholly inapropriate place, the far end if the track and in a spot that simply made in into an excercise in who dare take it the fastest, sounds like the new one will be vastly better.
My personal preference is a track that has level changes & contours, like Kiddy/Southport/Tiverton (outdoor), rather than agressive jumps. This type of track enables a broader ability range of drivers to push their own limits without each lap being a lottery.

Its at the bottom of the brick section on the astroturf pitch side I think it just needs reshaping and finishing off as Woody has already said. We will be starting the track improvments after xmas so I am sure everybodys coments will be taken into consideration.:D

I think the up ramp needs to be reduced slightly, the lefth and side to be extended, and the same height as the rest of the jump and happy days.

A softer landing would be nice, however im unsure how this can be achieved.

I know I am going to get slated for this but here goes!:wtf:

It sounds like the jump that was built 4 years ago which was a double which only a few people could make, and it did'nt include me! The problem then was you were driving down a paved surface, off camber and hitting the double at an angle, you then either hit the outer edge of the track (concrete) or you landed upside down.

At the time a lot of people were not happy about breaking their cars so the current tabletop was formed which was a much safer feature.

I have not seen the new jump, but just from the comments on here it sounds like the old one. Normal club members used to regularily break their cars and it did dissuade a few from racing.

Now, the question is this, are there any actual club racers left or is it rather that the usual suspects who turn up to Regionals and Nationals are actually supporting Bury club and therefore are quite happy with a more challenging track?

Personally, I think Bury is challenging enough and enjoy it when a technical track is set out, it is when we have very fast sections all the time when cars tend to break on this track.

Please be gentle!;) Back to the puppy training!!:D

I totally aggree with you on this one Jimmy for me the double jump is TOO far away from the rostrum (and to quote Danny Mcgee it took me a while to get used to it before I got it right) now thats from somone that spends quite a bit of time there.

It just makes that part of the track a lottery, to the point that you don't want to go over it on a practise lap or at the end of a run, for fear of breaking your car.

My main problem was that as you came off the bricked corner if you didn't point your car away from you, towards the field to hit the jump you completley missed it on the inside.

Now these are my opinions and how the track felt to me the rest of the track was great just that double though

Sounds like the tabletop that Damo is on about has been turned back into a double :(

Any pictures so we all know what we're on about?

G

This is not a slating Damien, so don't take it as one........

The 'club' scene is doing pretty well at Bury, we seem to have gained a good number of new racers through 2006, youngsters, not so youngsters and returning racers who not been for some years. Sure, the bulk of the work and organisation is done by a small, core group of members - but I expect that is the same at most clubs.

Roger and Stuart are crucial to the club, but they have the backing of a very keen committee, who have great plans to make Bury a superb venue - for beginners and F1's alike. As a club, we are working hard to attract, and keep, new members.

There, I was gentle.

Oh dear, my mistake.

Right, I've looked at the pictures......

Some questions:

1. Is this where the double jumps used to be? I think it is.

2. Why were the previous doubles taken out?


To be perfectly honest I felt the table top that used to be there was a little unpredictable. I think the jumps are a good size, shape and distance apart, but would probably have been better placed in a different part of the track. Closer, more central, and on a slower section preferably with some grip.

Saying that I have not raced over them yet, I'm just typing this from what I see on the pictures, and what I have read above.

This is not meant as critisism, but perhaps is best described as constructive critisism, and come from someone with a great deal of track building experience.

G

1. Yes
2. Taken out prior to the 2003 national because they were far too far away from the rostum, too narrow, and far too random.

I'll be honest, i didn't have many problems with the jump, it's a new feature and took a little while to get right, i rolled it a few times and broke the car once as i landed over on the concrete.

The jump is very 'do-able' it just needed a wider line to make it.

Fingers crossed that it will be alot better than it was in 2003/4.
As has been said by Spencer there is still alot of work yet to do to finish it off.
Maybe a tweak here-&-there will make it a good feature.

Once it's extended to the full width of the track it will be fine, it only takes a few laps to realise you have to go wider and slower than you think going onto it. When I wasn't fannying about trying to jump over Magoo it was doable all the time if you were steady and didn't unsettle the car on the approach.
Over jumping is definately better than under jumping it though, if you don't go far enough the car lands square into the face of the second jump :p The BJ seemed to flat land after it no problem but the B4 did tend to bounce a bit unless I landed on the down ramp.

Filling in the gap to make a mahoosive tabletop would be perfect though, so if you weren't confident enough to clear it you could roll over and not loose too much time.

Thanks for being gentle Rob!:D

My point was that from the names being mentioned at the recent meeting, Brian Preddy, Rich Lowe, Mr Magee it seems like they are generally National drivers who know how to take this kind of jump.

If there is a resurgence in club membership and normal clubby drivers then the club should be commended.:)

Only time will tell how the new feature goes down, however from the picture it looks exactly like the one that was there before.