Thank you great info.....

Great stuff JonBoy, so no new shock parts, bummer, have to have shockparts.

So I need LAW35, plus a kit to upgrade the shocks.......part number for that JonBoy ? (and why is it not included?)

Details of the LAW35 upgrade kit ...... no ally front brace :(

Translated from Japanese website ...

Rather than arranging with the part single item, your approximately 2,400 profits! * The photograph is laser ZX-5 SP (No.30077). The conversion set which can convert stock laser ZX-5 to SP specification. By the fact that this set is introduced, it is possible to reproduce the underside of the machine which participated in 2007 EP off load world championship. The front suspension of the new design the big position of a vessel's helm actualizing wide adjustment corresponding power. Similarly, as for the rear suspension of the new design, the traction application with increase change is easy to do, unrestricted maneuverability in various road surface circumstances shows. Note: It converts from the normal kit perfectly, the separate shock-related product, it is necessary the body and the wing etc. to exchange. Contents > of < conversion set * front hub carrier (R) (10°) & front hub carrier (R) (7°) & front hub carrier (L) (10°) & front hub carrier (L) (7°) & ダンパープラパーツセット & shock cap & new model front wheel & front knuckle (R) (L) & king pin sleeve & front suspension arm & rear suspension arm & universal swing shaft (73) & universal swing shaft (60.5) * instruction manual

Thanks Roger, clearer now.

I need a shock related part, but am looking for a kit of shock related items to do all 4shocks, rather than buy 2 kits (spect I will have to).:wtf:

I want to run the new front end but not have to change all my wheels, we use the Azarashi body & wing so will not need another, I also do not want to spend £100 on new bits to put on an old car, much as we love it. Guess we will sort it before the summer.

the front wheels i think are the same Hex Size they just added extra strength to them..... when i got my conversion kit from a main hobbies i tried both front wheels the kit ones and the SP ones and fit fine..... so you should not have a problem.... i have the alloy front brace and LAW 34 coming from a main so i can upgrade to the RB5 style Cartridge.... should be here in a couple days :)

Cheers Deception, I couldn't face another set of wheels.

Sorry to disapoint you but the front wheels ARE very different
 

I've been conversing with some of the Kyosho USA team guys (really helpful and a great resource ..... maybe they should have a UK team .. :) )

The front wheels are a new part number W5201 (add W for white as per the previous ones) and the offset is VERY diffrent from the original front wheels. If you use the original wheels the car will be VERY much over maximum width and thus illegal for racing in BRCA events.
The original rear wheels still fit though so there is no problem there.

The new front end geometry is more like the rest of the current crop of off-roaders (XX4 style front outboard) and the new rear end in the LAW35 kit is designed to balance the geometry to the new front end.

What you have here is a NEW CAR .... .only the transmission and chassis remains the same as before. The two major contributors to a cars handling are the weight distribution (chassis components) and suspension geometry. So as an absolute minimum you can consider it to be 50% new.

I am looking forward to my car arriving ...... I have only driven a couple of packs of cells through a ZX5 (had the rear - mid conversion fitted) and felt the car to be much nicer to drive than my BJ4WE, I had a couple of minor gripes about the way the car turned in but those should be resolved by the new suspension.

I'll let you know what I think as soon as I've tested the SP.

You mention that weight distribution is one of the major changes, do you mean the prototype saddle pack chassis as I can't see how much it can be changed otherwise (apart from shifting the rear weight with the LAW34 rear wishbones)?

it been muted on here before

So it may be half my wheels!!!!!! you seem to be becoming a bit of a resource yourself. :cool:

Thanks for the info

if it's the same off set as the D4, then perhaps either D4 wheels will fit, and / or a D4 losi-style hex, meaning you could fit XX4 wheels on the front.

Sorry, probably didn't make myself clear enough.

The weight distribution will be largely unchanged ....... that is the 50% not to change .... yet.

The SP suspension should, in theory, make the car feel more positve and direct and allow it to change direction quicker than the original set-up. This sould make the car quicker around a lap but possibly a little more difficult to drive consistently ..... still should be stable tough so don't get put off!

I'm just a research monkey ..... LOL

Looking forward to getting my hands on this car.

Jimmy,

very good point about the D4 drive hex and wheels ..... might be worth trying ..... now who has access to a D4 and a lazer?????

I have just checked and the rears will work. I dont have any fronts at the moment though!:rolleyes:

Im ordering the HB drive hex for the front to use with losi rims and gonna try that when I get the SP conversion parts. I think it will be pretty close.

On the Tamiya 501X I had to drill out the HB hex very slightly and also sand the back edge down again very slightly to get it to fit.. The Tamiya Hex is the same as losi but the axle size is very slightly different.
I'd think one or the other would fit, but the Tamiya hex simply isn't easy to find, hence why I have HB hexes on my Tamiya.

bring some wheels to formby on sunday, i'll be there.. racing the B4 but i'll have the D4 there on show.

u out there trioxer?lazer zx5 sp are on their way as we speak.will call u asap hopefully tomorrow,if not mon/tues.ok.u can call at house to pick car up and have first sort through other stuff.;)

zx5 sp
 

cheers jez,very happy now cant wait to get new car,will be over to collect as soon as i hear from you
cheers chris.

My car will arrive mid week too .... can't wait!!!

Finally got the car ....... good old parcel farce!!!!!!

Was a little disapointed really with the conversion kit, or rather the information surrounding it!

For those people thinking of just getting the LAW35 conversion for an existing car then please be aware that you will NOT be able to build a full ZX5-SP chassis from a standard kit and the LAW35 ... the differences as far as I can tell are .....

no allen screw kit (we all knew that though)
No ally front arm mount (LAW31)
No shock tripple cap parts (they do provide new top cap nuts though ... no idea why!) let alone the loverly new bodies

Also they don't include the RB5 shock shafts (42mm front, 50mm rear) which is necessary to make the most of the new suspension arms.

No single piece motor mount / shaft support

It is also interesting trying to follow the build from 2 manuals (although if your converting a car that won't matter as you've already done the standard ZX5 build). You need to do this as there are many subtle differences throughout the build between the manuals.

What I am most defiantely not disapointed with is the finished chassis!!!

I am a bit of an geek at heart and can't build a car without measuring everything and when I have a built car I have to work through all the link position and shock position options to get a feel for the magnitude of the effect each will have. Obviously this was done with my RB5 shocks on the car to get the shock lengths right

One word springs to mind with the ZX5-SP ... balance. By that I mean that anything you can do to one end you can also achieve by doing something to the back end of the car so you should be able to build it as a front endy monster or a steer-from-the-rear. The proof will be on the track of course!

Anybody considering this conversion please stop ... just go and order it (along with the shock shafts of course W5193-01 (rr) and W5184-04 (fr) )!!!!!!!

Ok I have a question for the Lazer ZX-5 SP drivers. The front wheels look stunning as a flat plate (just like the prototypes I used on my B2 way back in the past) and was wondering if they still fit the same large hex fittings on the UJs, so if I buy a pair of fronts they should fit a ZXR or the original ZX-5? Also are the rear wheels identical or do they look pretty much the same as the original ZXR wheels that have been sold on the ZX-5 buggies since the original car was released.

From the Lazer ZX5 to the Lazer SP

Rear Wheels are the same.
Fronts use the regular Kyosho hex
SP Fronts have a different offset than the regular ZX-5 (if you put the old wheels on the SP it will be waaaay too wide)

Thanks - so the wheels have a narrower offset so I will need a wider hex nut hub to use.

The change in offset is such that the size of the hex would probalby mean that you would not have any thread left for the nut!!!

Measuring the difference in offset it is 5.3mm at the mounting face (the part that would sit against the hex).

Now something that is interesting is that the new front wheel is almost identical (they have less than 0.1mm difference in offset!!) to the "Losi style" front all the other cars use! I am going to machine up a set of drive hexes to the standard size for the Losi wheels as it will give me an extra option should I get stuck for wheels trackside.

Kyosho copying Losi :o:o:o I thought everyone copied the old Lazer :p:p:p

G

LOL ..... It's worked well since the late 80s ..... even Kyosho can't hold back the winds of change! LOL

Seriously though G' .... this new car looks very promising in it's geometry ... can't wait to get it running!

Does it have BJ4 geometry like most things these days? :(

I'm sure if Gill has anything to do with it it will be a very good car indeed.

G

Northy ...... no mate ..... no BJ4 influences (apart from the front end which is actually just a Losi original anyway as you well know) which is the main reason for going for the car in the first place! Well that and how utterly brilliant the RB5 is, could have been designed for how I drive the RB5 .... perfect is a very strong word but it is so nearly justified on that car!!

I must admit that the Gill Losi Jr connection is actually a concern to me with picking up the Kyosho brand as I haven't got on well with any Losi vehical since the XX-CR, it just seems his designs don't suit my driving style at all well. On the other hand Kyosho have always prided themselves on having a neutral handling car which can be tuned towards either end of the handling spectrum ..... that is part of the reason why the Inferno series has been the main stay of 1/8th rallycross for well over a decade!!

No BJ4 influences? Are we looking at the same car? :eh?:

The BJ4 uses Losi knuckles, so obviously that part of the front end is the same. But measure the vertical height and offset of the caster blocks, and you should be able to figure out which car "influenced" the SP's new front end. ;)

The wheels on the picture Brad just left are the same front and rear, so when will we be able to get hold of the complete set rather than just the front end new wheels?

Im going to make these fit my ZXS so I am guessing that they should fit and if not a little bit of designing and job done.

This is my zx5 with the kmc chassis with the SP conversion. I started with a b44 aluminum front hex, but needed to make the id bigger and split it. So to prove the concept I dremeled down a stock front hex to fit a losi front dish rim. Here are pics with a jconcpets b44 front,and an old xx4 5star rim. I think if you got the HB front hex for the losi rims it may work with minimal work since its made for a metrix sized axle. I will post more pics when I get my new body done and my matching rear jc rims get here. I already have the proline rear axles on the back. Sorry about all the camber on the RR.

The front end is quite Losi influencd ... not BJ4 which just copied losi.. LOL

If you then work out the arcs the axle passes through with the SP and BJ4 you'll see they are quite different!

You claim that both the SP and BJ4 front ends came from Losi, but the SP was "influenced" and the BJ4 "copied". That's an interesting choice of words.

I never said the BJ4 front end was not similiar to the Losi front end. I even pointed out that the BJ4 uses Losi knuckles. The point I was making is that when you look at the differences between the two, the SP is closer to the BJ4 than the Losi. So, which car was really the "influence" for the SP?

If you still can't decide, just look beyond the front end of the Worlds SP. For example: graphite chassis and top deck, mid-motor saddle-pack layout, rear shocks moved to the front of the arms, etc. All of the changes from the standard ZX-5 to the Worlds SP made the car more like the BJ4WE.

LOL ... you misunderstand me mate .... all I was trying to say is that the arrangement for the front end on all off roaders seems to be a straight copy of Losi's original design ... mainly because it's a really good solution for getting the steering pivot point in side the wheel and the bearings weight outside that point!

As for the "worlds" SP such as the one in your pic that is not what we are discussing here, we are discusssing the ZX5-SP release which is new suspension pieces for the standard chassis.

I persoanlly will never run the "worlds" configuration as the whole reason for ditching my BJ4WE and going to the Lazer was that it is the car furthest removed from the BJ4WE chassis layout I can get. IMHO the BJ4WE and all it's clones are not ideally suited to the sort of surfacs and tracks we race on in the UK. It may be absolutely dialed on the clay / dirt surfaces in the rest of the world but it doesn't work that well in the UK and certainly doesn't suit my driving style!!

You have to remember that on our national circuit there are NO dirt / clay tracks at all ... not even three corners in combination on dirt! We also keep our wheels on the ground much more than in the USA for example, most circuits only having one or two jump features and those are not normally blessed with proper landing ramps.
Those two points take away any advantage that the BJ4WE style cars may have and the high traction, high sidebite surfaces cause the rear suspension geometry of the BJ4 and clones to colapse on cornering .... not the quickest way around the track!

Now some people have got those cars working nicely, I have to admit that but they still suffer the rear end collapse to some extent which I personally don't like at all.


At the risk of being rude, which I don't mean to be, can we get back on topic to discussing the released version of the Lazer ZX5-SP .... the alternative to the BJ4WE style layout!

I have read that some people are adding weight to the motor side of their ZX-5s to equal out the distribution a little better. Personally I have never done this and have never felt the need. I was wondering what the difference in weight side to side would be when running Li-Po batteries. I know Li-Pos are supposed to be lighter and thought it might balance the car better. Anyone running Li-po in their ZX-5?
The reason I mention it is because the next evolution of the ZX-5 appears to be a saddle pack layout. However if the Li-Po batteries balance out the chassis in the current 'touring car' style arrangement, it would mean that the saddle pack arrangement is actually a step in the wrong direction, as the next advance in batteries is undoubtedly Li-Po power.

Rog, if you think any lazer of any sort will finish higher overall than the highest BJ4 WE or clone(s) at this years nationals you're deluded. It's one claim too far for me. I've driven Rich Lowe's BJ4 WE on all kinds of surfaces and it's been really very good indeed. I can't imagine Pidge's B44 looking too shabby this year or Trumans D4.

You must just admit to having the most unique requirements for car handling, something the rest of us would regard as a pig to drive most likely ;) I just think you've made one claim to far above and couldn't let it lie.

(edit, of course the best handling car of all time EVER is the X5, though I assume that went without saying ;) )

Dan ..... I did say some people have got their BJ4WE clones to go very well indeed!

That said I have also spoken to several drivers that have the same view as I do about the rear end collapsing and what is causing it! At least one of those is an F1 (I think maybe 2 actually) and several F2s. It's just not going to suit some people, and yes I am one of those people!

I like a very flowing car with loads of steering (happy to drive part stick) but the back must follow the front and I'm not a "handbrake" user if I can avoid it. That might be unusual, I'm not sure!

I'd like to try your X5 (or anybodys) at some point .. just for the sake of comparison.

It's odd how things have seemed to change with the cars as when I was running the Pred I ran very similar set-ups to most other drivers. Same can be said of the Yokomo BC-sp, B3, XX, XX-CR but with the XX4, XXX and B4, BJ4WE I can't get them to work for me at all.....

Anyway mate ... I am sure that I'd finish higher with the ZX5-sp than any of the BJ4-u-likes so I'm going to give it a try. You might be right about the BJ4WE/ D4 / B44s finishing higher but then again the guys drivign them would be there or there abouts with most cars .... the top guys are the top guys after all.

Roger, get yourself to Worksop this Sunday and have a go with my BJ4, I guarantee you will be blown away ;)

Based on my expereince in Florida our tracks arn't actually any higher grip than a well prepared clay track. When the groove started to develop there was more grip than I've ever experienced, certainly enough to get the BJ's front wheels up on hard acceleration. Whats more the locals said the track was only giving '80%' of the grip it could :o

You just needed to copy the setup I've posted 100% - including the front one-way diff.

If you really throw the car around that much that the rear is folding under with my setup on you want to get yourself an elastic band car (XX4 :p )