Not at all dissected Rich - we're all looking for the perfect resolution - but we have to be realistic with what's achievable in the confines of the hall.

As has been said before - we are in the throes of trying some different formats and I'm sure Alan & Jon have viewed this thread and are taking on board yours and anyone else's concerns.

See you tonight - hopefully you'll have a better evening than last week.

so how do we think the stagerd start went tonight.

stu

Personally - I think it sucked. Fine for a whole days racing when you have 4 qualifiers and 3 finals as per our Winter series, but for a Wednesday night it just knocked the "cut and thrust" element right on the head.

-1 from me.

Same here Dave!

Much Much Better

A chance of finishing a meeting without a broken car which is superb, also should show peoples real pace.
Then you have a close final with people who have run close times to yourself.

TBH Hog you were in my heat an it was v scrappy at times as people hadnt listened to how the race system works. An we both in the final had issues with lapping but thats usual. Hog you won the final so your true pace showed through then.
Biggest issue i had was you running different body that looks like someone elses lolol.

Crewie dont know what happened to you mate were you in B with us?

It will get better

Well for the one race i managed to finish without bits falling off or something going wrong i thought it was tip top:thumbsup:

Everyone in the seemed to have their own racing space, you no longer have to worry about people running into you and spoiling your time.

Was it a bit rough in the lower heats? it should calm down when people get used to it.

Don't think I won the final Richard - I know for a fact I was behind Will at the very least.

Crewie decided that instead of racing in the 2nd round he would talk himself into the B final :p

I guess it depends whether you want to race the clock, or other drivers.

Racing the clock is predictable and it's purely down to you. Racing other drivers throws in the element of unpredictability - the "what are they going to do to defend" scenario. To me, THAT is racing.

Do we want the winner on the night to be the fastest person against the clock, or the one that is quickest and has the racecraft to beat the other drivers?

I thought it was pretty good last night, the only slight probs were getting through back markers, I feel things could be improved with numbers on the cars so its easy to see who is lapping you and having a speaker on the stage so you can hear where you are in the race as its a bit hard to hear at the other end of the hall.

But you had the usual suspects in the A final so it worked out ok I thought

Hog

Thought you were in B with us but hey i remember now, you made your usual A final so same as normal, thats a good thing isnt it.

I think the driver grading has proved that it's a worthwhile addition to the FORCC way of doing things, but I know of plenty that are unhappy with the staggered start format. We have said that it's only a trial period so we'll see after that I guess.

I just hope that everyone feels free to have their say.............

While we're on the subject of change - do we start naming and shaming those who never help put the track away?

last night i enjoyed the heats in my view was so much cleaner but i was in heat 6 and its normaly ok the lower heats seemed to look ok.

im confused with the driver gradeing system not taking anything away from will but how does the grading work out a driver who has had 1 win and a majority of lower score is higher graded than two drivers who have finished no lower thand second this doesn't figure.

stu

new race format
 

Hi,
Two things from me ref the new race format.
One good and one needs sorting.
The one good thing for me is the staggered start. Yes you are racing the clock but only to get your space in one of the Finals. This type of start gives you a clean start at least. Once in the finals then you will be racing each other and hopefully get your "cut and thrust" your looking for.
The one that needs sorting is the grading. Surely you should add up all the results gained and then divide the number of races attended. This should then give you the average sore and thats your ranking.
Well, I hope you don't mind me adding my comments as I am after all new to this Offroad thing, but I must say I am having so much fun.
Thanks FORCC
Always remember "enjoy the drive"
Andy.

Hi Andy. The sort of grading you mention would be better but as far as I am aware the race software does not cater for that system. Therefore, someone would have to work it out manually and I dont think you will get many voluteers for that job!

Although I'm the chairman of the club and some would say i should keep my views to myself, I disagree and feel it's only fair that i should put my point, as a driver, across.

It's good that we're trying new formats but this will bring negative and possitive opinions with any new format.

Last week Jon in my absence asked people what they would like to try for the next trial period, and he tells me two people spoke up out of fourty. This proves that a majority of the club members just want to come along and race, and with that in mind I am in favour of putting in place a race format at the end of these trial periods, which works for the club as a whole, the time we have to run in an evening and for the benefit of the people that run the club, so please bare this in mind. If you read this thread so far i can count about six or seven people that have posted an opinion regards our trial periods.

The point above about grading using an average system is yes great, but our software does not allow for this so somebody would have to sit down and manually work it out week by week, and there is no way any of us want to do that as we feel we do so much already i.e. wednesday night and the addition of the outside track. To give you an example take packing away at the end of the evening which should idealy be done by the last two heats, i counted three from sixteen last night helping and the two people under the stage were the same two people that were there at 5:30 building the track. I hope you understand my point that ideas are great however if they heap even more work onto the people that run the club, I personaly don't think that they should ever come into practise.

Please don't stop adding your oppinions as this is what the thread is for!

Kind regards Alan

Chairman or not Alan, you're a member of the club and entitled to your say as is every other member. I would perhaps say even more so as you're one of the few remaining "original" members from way back when.........

I think a few people need to step back a moment and take into consideration that this club doesn't run itself. The fact that it is such a smooth operation is credit to those that make it happen. Certain members put an awful lot of time and effort into making sure that your Wednesday night entertainment runs smoothly. Among all this they're listening to the club membership and taking on board what changes people would like to see. It doesn't happen all at the press of a button.

And yet at the end of an evening it's the same old few putting it all away as Alan rightly states, when those that should be doing their bit are chatting away in the side rooms about their final. It's not a written rule but it is a courtesy thing that the last 2 races of the night put the track away. About time certain drivers stepped up to the mark to help out before those that are doing ALL this get hacked off with it.

And on top of this we have the new permanent outdoor venue to get up and running fully. Personally I haven't been able to get up there as much as I'd hoped, but again certain members of the club have been spending an inordinate amount of time not just working on the site itself and preparing the land, but working behind the scenes to liase with the local community to get toilet facilities sorted, refreshments, site access, materials - everything you need to build a successful venue for our club to EXPAND. This is all being done in their own time and their own expense, purely for the continued good fortune of the club.

Opinions of club members are welcomed, but as Alan stated if it means more work for those who already are doing more than their fair share when others stand idly by then changes won't be made and opportunities may be missed. It was emphasised when the announcement was made about the new venue that it would only happen if the club as a whole made the effort to make it happen. Just because the first race meeting has been held doesn't mean we're "there". There's an awful lot of work to be carried out over the months before we get into a full 2011 season, but unless the club works as a whole then you may lose a fantastic outdoor race venue.

so what are people thought on the stagerd format now we have had more of a chance to try it do people think the driving standard is better and racing is closer do the other formats we have tried more favoured my veiw is the staggerd starts with one final is the best format we have had.

stu

Staggered grid - yes. Staggered start - no.

Take for example my first race on Wednesday. I left the grid position 6, so starting 6 seconds after (I think) Neil. With a lap time of around 11-12 seconds, and after a couple of minor errors (getting caught up in someone else's accident), within 2-3 laps I had been caught and "lapped" by Neil.

Race over for me then.

I know it's against the clock, but with Neil now physically in front of my car there's no way I can push at 100% for fear of making an error and ruining his race.

The hall is just not big enough to utilise this type of format. Yes it works over the winter series when you have 4 goes at qualifying, but on a Wednesday night there just isn't the opportunity to make amends should you have a bad race. Proof of the point - I qualified 6th in the B final.

I know plenty of people just want to go back to the 3 rounds format where you each get a go at the front, middle and back rows. It worked for 20+ years, so I think it's time to take a serious look at the changes that have been made and if they are necessary. The driver grading is good I accept and has taken the headache from Alan when booking in which can only be a plus point.

As an aside - nice to see a few new faces helping out at the end of the night. Still one of two regular posters to this thread that still seem to be averse to doing their bit though........time to name names?

hey dave

im struggling to see why the winter series is any difference running the staggerd format to wednesday's you still get two shots at qualifying, to be honest if neil has cought and pasted you you should use that as an advantage by folowing him ok you will not beat him that round but you would more likly be off straight after him next round then all you need to do is follow within a second and beat him if he makes a mistake and you dont your quids in.

you have to admit the driving standards are much better in the current format than the both other formats we have tried.

as we are trying different formats hows about we try the original format that we used before the round by round format which was the fastest time qaulified in the old style three races everybody starting at the same time fastest time wins i could never see why round by round was used apart from the odd oil spill which doesnt happen very often.

as for me big thumbs up for staggerd start 2 qualifiyers and 1 final and the grading system seems to work:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumb sup:.

stu

To me the system has its pros and cons :eh?:

Yes starts maybe cleaner etc but I agree with what dave says, laps are just too quick for the staggered start and a couple of mistakes puts you lapped and in a awkward position however the staggered grid seems to work both ways being cleaner off the line compared to the 3 lines mass start :).
Also even though i like the qualifing then final format 2 qualifiers doesnt feel enough of a chance, a break or car failure in round one causes a all balls out run next in round two as an attempt to qualify as high as possible. Ive heard 3 3 min qualifiers and 5 min final wispered and that sounds worth a try :D
Also the driver ranking seems a bit :eh?: , im not sure how it works but i had a 1st overall one week which put me pole for the A the next week (which is a bit scary lol) then a 3rd , 5th etc over a couple of weeks, then ill have a bad evening and end up 9th or so a week or two later and ill drop to the bottom of B qualifying the next week maybe it should work on an average over certain number of weeks or something??

My 2 pence :)
Will

ok if the 1 second gap between drivers at the start is to long reduce it to 0.5 secs so if you were off last you would only be 4 seconds behind in a 8 car heat so if the lead car was averaging 12 secs you would still be 8 secs in front if you crash or make i mistake thats unlucky but the simple fact is if you dont make any mistakes and avoid other peoples mistakes you will win.

Not always easy or possible.....

Right - both myself and Alan won't be at the hall on Wednesday. I would ask that EVERYONE does their bit to help and ensure the meeting runs smoothly.

DON'T leave it all to Jon, Crewie, Ollie, Andy J and the usual few to set the track up, do the loop etc. And especially when it comes to packing away I would like to see EVERYONE from the last 2 races do their bit.

It's really starting to hack me off that despite reminders and asking politely that there's still a certain few that deem it below them to lend a hand. It's not much to ask - especially as these drivers are usually still out in the car park at the end of the night chatting away when I lock the hall - it's not like you're dashing off home is it gents???

hey chaps

great nights racing again last night are we gonna try another race format or will we be voting which one is best for the racing ie the orignal, stagerd with grid start or stagerd with line start.

stu

How about we vote for a suitable punishment for those drivers that never help pack away? Especially as I was told that the meeting on the 18th had virtually no-one remain behind to help despite my request for people to do so.

You want changes made? Do your bit and help. Else we just go back to what we had before.

if i remeber correct wasn't it the last two heats to pack up which is all well and good but didnt we used to rotate the heats which we dont do anymore maybe this should be done again.

hopefully
 

Good point stu,
im all for the grading system
im all for the rotating of the last two heats
and Hopefully the old race system save the current one for the winter series.

im all for the

grading system
rotating heats (maybe points deducted for not clearing away) only if heats are rotated.
and stagerd start 2 Q 1 final IMO makes closer racing and somthing to race for.

stu

Rotating heats may be possible to some extent but you have to allow that the youngsters cannot stay late and will always be placed early on in the running order.

Regardless of this if EVERYONE from the last 2 heats helps it takes minutes. The top heats should be setting an example anyway - not just racing etiquette but all aspects of a race meeting.

Jon and Alan will be back this week so I'm sure we'll sort out the race format.

First of all i didnt really like going back to the old format of racing, all it seemed to do was promote pointless crashing. I didnt have one clean race, every time i got sucked into someone else's incident.

At least with the two qualifying rounds of old we had a strong chance of setting a relativly quick overall time.

Because the racing has been so chaotic and that ive oddly been placed in the c heat:confused: its going to take me a few weeks before i can get back in the a heat.....Rant over!

But on the flipside............I really enjoyed last night.

Everyone gets a fair crack at starting on each row.

You're not starting off only 6 seconds in front of someone with every chance of being lapped within a couple of laps.

Starting all together you know who's in front and who's behind and react accordingly.

And the best bit - although you're still racing the clock, you're racing other drivers too which adds to the evening. I'm afraid for me purely racing the clock detracted from my Wednesday night fun.

I heard lots of positives last night which was nice to hear. And also a big thanks for those that packed away - I think everyone that should have been doing it was :thumbsup:

im with steve on this one the racing hasent been that crash and bash for a long time (2 months) and in this format there is no racing againt the clock its down to whoever can get the cleanest run but on the plus side at least i got chance to scrub some new tyres in as ther meeting was won after round 2.

anyway its been decided we shall say no more.

a club vote would have been nice tho.

stu

I think we need someone too watch over our races ,with stop go 's punishment for bad driving....or at least being told to clean it up embareses ,them
the second leg of the A last week was really poor......
Stop cheating you cheats...you know who you are rope jumpers.....you think you get away with it , you might but everyone is slagging you off in the pits, and ruining everyone else's race
If it continues like last wednesday i am off to new things
as i simply have better things to do with my time
as i am getting sick of rushing all day at work to make up some time so as to finish slightly earlier so i can get home ,shower and change,get some diesel,race up the a2 in peak time, just to get smashed up or reversed into by a car thats made a mistake in front of you then slams it into rev and wipes your race out
I meen its a bloody close call to wether 15 minutes track race time is worth it anyway?
i think we also need to make sure the marshalls pay more attension as the week before last i was upside down for for two of ed's laps (he said was that you on the straight all that time...i passed you twice) with the marshalls watching the race....to which i responded TURN IT OFF!That was my night ruined
And whilst i am ranting lol
Can we stop this stupid marshalling where as they marshall there freinds by putting them over the rope around the track a bit so as not to lose time....thats wrong
also wrong is jumping ropes when you have made a mistake ....Jame's the other week said to someone that had crashed infront of him JUST JUMP THE ROPE WHY DONT YOU! sarcasticly....to which the person (naming no names) said LOL I DIDNT GAIN BUY IT?????????????????but surely the point of our little car game is that if you make a mistake you lose a bit of time, not continue like nothing has happened!
Sort it out boys you are ruining my and manys night out
and also taking the P a bit out of those that do such a great job of running and organising it each week.....Thanklessly.... Alan/john/dave/jodie/oli/etc Thanks from me!guys
Rant over.
bye then

After last night it would seem we have gone back to the chaotic crash your way to the front heats:thumbdown: and the heat listing appear to be VERY random, what's going on with the ranking system??

i'm not a fan of this format :thumbdown: bring back 2 qualifying rounds and 1 final!!!!!

I have to say on a positive note, i cant comment on the "new" format with regards to qualifiers and finals as i missed the whole 2 month trial thingy.
However being back indoors racing again is great! the bug has bitten me again and i cant wait for next week, even though im a bit rusty and ive forgoten the art of driving indoors.
As for Scott's comments about running and organising the club....spot on mate, they all all do a fabbo job for not alot of thanks, i only wish i had that kind of dedication in me! Thanks from me too!!:thumbsup:

Iv gotta say its very strange going back to 3 races in witch its all random as to who wins or who finishes and with people who get in a mood as a result of u hitting them when they try to take every corner sideways and u catch them it was all ways cleaner and more predictable when we had 2 qualifiers and a final as people wanted to post gd times to get a gd final start position but if people like a bit more contact than raceing thats up to them...............:wtf:

What makes you say that Steve? I though last night was a lot better than the previous week.

As an aside - DO NOT do "burnouts" on the stage or hall floor to try and bed new tyres in. When checking round before locking up last night there are some serious burn marks on the stage. I know when we were packing away last night there was the smell of burning wood in the air. There's a whole carpark outside to scrub tyres in so feel free to use that instead!

Hi All,
I have to agree with sFry61. The "crash bang wallop" is back.
Bring back the 2 Quals 1 Final. I know this wont happen till the new year, But please think about it.
And someone needs to watch the racing. The "oh I've crashed, never mind, just drive over the rope, miss that bit of track out", and "Oh I've lots no time and doing a better time now than my last run".
It's unfair to those that are having a good runs and with the best of 2 runs format means they might just move up to the next heat.

Im with steve and others last night again was crash and bash again i would say the the driving standard has hit an all time low IMO.

i still feel a proper club vote should be done.

and as for the numpty who done the burnout on the stage your an idoit.

stu

I dont particularly mind which format we use, but last 2 weeks seemed to have had very random heats, perhaps it needs time for people to "settle" back in :)

Will

Amazing that isn't it?



Personally I'm struggling to see what the problem is. We've gone back to a format which has worked well for over 20 years. We were asked to try something new, which we did, but on the whole the opinion we were given was that the old format was the preferred one. Everyone in their heat gets a shot at a front row start. Possibly the grading needs looking at but I'm sure that's underway already.

I can't see how one format over another causes a drop in driving standards over such a short space of time.

Have you not been watching the racing?? people are crashing their way to the front, which ruins everyone elses race.

unless you make a rare clean start for two of the tgree races your never going to get a good run together to get into the top heats.

Antoher thing, is there any reason why i went from bottom of the A heat in the trial format to bottom of C heat when we went back to the old format. Nice to see random heats again!:thumbdown:Not impressed!!:thumbdown: