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im not sure what year cells i have, i thought i had the new worlds smc 42s?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southwell (Post 50591)

The last thing we need is more power from our cells though imo.

personally id say power is irelevent, they need to be safe 1st

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopite (Post 50601)

aren't this year's IB4200's different to last year's? If i'm wrong, then please correct me, but i was led to believe that this year's cells are far more 'highly strung' so to speak, which would explain the temporamentality of them i suppose

yours havent exactly been the most reliable have they stanny boy? :(

Received this e-mail of Paul Worsley earlier on.

Hi Mark,

Just been reading the posts regarding your cell going 'bang'.

Quite simply, you were charging them outside the manufacturers recommendations.
The data sheet supplied by Intellect clearly states :- Maximum charge rate 1C
That means that you should never charge at more than 4.2 amps.

The recommendations from any of the 'matchers' is always dubious, as they did not produce the cell.

The correct rate of charge for cells is ambiguous in many cases.
Example :- GP 4300 cells clearly state on the cell that they should be charged at 0.41 amp (410 ma.) and should not be soldered.
However their data sheet states that the cell can be charged up to 6 amps.
So if one goes bang when charging at 6 amps, would it be recognised that they have been misused ??
My guess is that in a court of law, the instructions on the cell would be the ruling factor.

Intellect do not state any charging recommendations on the actual cell.
I have advised them several times that this is not good practice and they could be liable for any claims, as their product does not state how it should be used.

I think that common sense dictates that cells should never be charged at more than 1C (4.2 Amps)
I would be concerned at anything over 5 Amps. The cells should never be 're-peaked'.

A further consideration is the nature of NiMH cells. MiMh cells 'self discharge' at varying amounts.
The gives the situation :-
If cells have been stored in a charged condition and unused for a period of time, the capacity remaining in the cells can vary greatly. When the cells are then charged, the charger cannot always accommodate this variation and some cells can be greatly over-charged.

Touring Car drivers often charge at 7, 8 and even higher amps, and as a result they have more cells go 'bang' than Off-Road drivers.

Hope this helps,

Paul Worsley. (Cell homologation officer)

Hope this ok to post Jimmy and Paul.

I think the moral of the story is equalise before you charge;)

And then charge at 10 amps :D

but i do!! i give them a good seeing to on the novak smart tray before each charge, and they still pack in!

bring back 1400scr's, they were mint

1200 SCEs, now they kept you entertained!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by strobe (Post 50614)

good info Paul!

i was dissapointed with my IB cells as well. i never had any explode but i bought a couple of brand new packs and one is venting after only a handful of charges. this is making me think that i did a big mistake and should have just gotten one lipo instead of 2 6 cells. i also have a few GP cell packs which are over 2 seasons old and still arent venting although they dont charge to full capacity i still get crazy voltage from them and no venting.

I have found venting happened on the first charge or two, then nothing since.

It appears we are all using the wrong cells then.......

Think you are getting the highest voltage out of your IB4200WE's? have you ever looked at the EP4200 cells? much more reliable than the IB's and the voltages are....... well buy some from demon an see for yourself, £32.50 for an assembled matched pack :cool: ask if you want to read my review on them, bit wordy but most things you need to know.

Are the EP 4200 Cells BRCA Legal?

YES see below

it's in the EB section of BRCA

Quote:

26th. June 2007.

East Power SC4200 NiMH Cell.

The above mentioned cell was approved by the BRCA Electric Board (EB) for use at BRCA sanctioned events in January this year. As dictated by BRCA rules, any new cell added to the list in January, does not become legal for use until April 1st of that year.
In Recent weeks, it has come to the attention of the (EB), that cells sold in UK since their inclusion on the approved list, differ from the sample that was originally approved in December 2006. The difference being the colour of the fibre disc that surrounds the positive button. The colour of this disc is clearly stated on the approved list as being RED. The cells that have been shipped from East Power during this year have a Black disc.
The BRCA (EB) wish to make it clear, that prior to this announcement, the cells with the Black disc do not comply with the approved list as published and therefore have not been considered as legal to use at BRCA sanctioned events.
The BRCA (EB) is aware that Black disc cells have been sold to customers with the advice that they are ‘BRCA legal’. This statement is incorrect. The BRCA (EB) hold the cell manufacturers and UK importers as being solely responsible for this misrepresentation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The change of colour to the ‘button disc’ was not known to the (EB) until early April. Since then, the (EB) has been conducting an investigation of the East Power 4200 cell to establish the true facts. This has involved many calls/mails to many countries, with the true facts only being revealed late last week.
When the East Power 4200 cell was submitted for approval, our investigation revealed that East Power quoted two variations of the same cell. When contacted, East Power were not forthcoming with any means of identification of the two types, but we recognised that they had cells with two different colours of ‘button disc’. The (EB) therefore described the visual appearance of the cell on the approved list exactly as the samples submitted, as we have in similar cases when cells are known to have variations.
The information eventually received last week from the manufacturer has confirmed that the BLACK disc version has a different design and/or materials from the original RED disc samples submitted.
During the time that it has taken to establish these facts, the (EB) have consulted with all the BRCA Electric Sections and in the interest of the competitors, have not objected to the cells being used whilst the irregularity was investigated and a final decision of legality made.
With the facts now known, the (EB) contacted the representatives from each of the Electric Sections that use the BRCA approved cell list, for agreement on if the East Power 4200 cell with the Black disc will be allowed. We have taken into consideration that :-
a) Many of these cells have been purchased in UK. b) All cells that have been shipped to UK since approval have been of the same type.
The four Sections involved have unanimously agreed, that whilst the East Power 4200 cell with Black disc does not technically comply with the (EB) approved cell list, in the interests of the competitors that have purchased these cells and the sport overall, they will be allowed.
To confirm :- The East Power SC 4200 cell with Black button disc will be considered legal for use at BRCA sanctioned events as from 26.06.07.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTES :- The above action has been decided in the best interests of the competitors. Under no circumstances does this set any precedent for any similar variation of approved cells from any manufacturer in the future. The (EB) are looking to amend the wording of the rules governing cell approval for the future.
A similar situation exists with the approval of the East Power 4200 cell within the EFRA organisation. To date, EFRA has not decided if the cell with the Black disc will be allowed at EFRA sanctioned events.

Paul Worsley. (Secretary & Tech. Officer, BRCA Electric Board)

Hi sorry to inturrupt but got a question here since its about cells. How do you find out that a cell has gone bad in a battery pack? Can i use a multimeter and put to voltage setting to check each cell? Or is there any better device? Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodom (Post 51797)

How do you find out that a cell has gone bad in a battery pack? Can i use a multimeter and put to voltage setting to check each cell? Or is there any better device? Thanks

see How to here

you don't need a Pro-Trak, you can use a DVM & your charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

:( I bought 6 sets of ready assembled EP 4200 Mk II's from Modeltech and as I did not use them immediately I thought it best to discharge them and equalise them before their first charge.

The first 2 sets discharged without and problem but half way through discharging the 3rd pack there was an almighty bang and one cell had exploded across my living room floor, fortunately no one was hurt.

The other 3 sets discharged without any problem and I immediately telephoned Mike at Modeltech and told him what had happened. As instructed I returned the remains and the rest of the pack to him as requested. He was most concerned and apologised stating that they'd had no problems with the EP's, although another club member had one exploded whilst charging (don't know at what settings).

I said there was no need to apologise as he had no way of seeing inside these cells and he duly returned the pack with the defective cell replaced.

Although I never charge at more than 5 amps, with my driving more power isn't exactly needed, I could have understood it more if it had been charging but discharging!

I bought the EP's due to all the scare stories with the IB's and whilst a lot less frequent it would appear the EP's are not totally immune from problems.

I've not had any problems since, although they've only been used for one meeting, and hats off to Mike at Modeltech for standing by what he sells and sorting it so quickly.:)

There not perfect, no cell is but i have put mine through a fair few cycles so far (only ever discharged in the car so far, no equalising tray ATM) and nothing hase ever gone wrong.

What kind of numbers are you getting on the labels Gramey?

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

Dont no how you can say that the EP's are more reliable ????? i have had my IB3800 for well over a year now, and thats using them indoor and outdoor regionals plus club racing and they still have mega punch plus duration
How long have you had the EP's for and how many events

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramey (Post 51857)

Gramey
I got 5 sets of IB3800 and discharged plus equalized them as soon as i got them, ive had mine now for well over a year, and they still have loads of punch in them, ive had no problems what so ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51862)

What numbers are you getting, are they pro matched / team matched

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

Voltage are the same as my IB3800 and i got mine at £27.00 so dont no what your talking about man ????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51680)

ask if you want to read my review on them, bit wordy but most things you need to know.

I'm asking :)

attach it to your next post in this thread and we can all read it

Heres my review, i did it for another forum so if it has any wierd, random letters in it is probably off smileys lol.

Quote:

After a while of waiting i give you the EP4200 matched 6 cell pack review.

EP4200 6 cell matched pack from demon power products
After some problems with my IB3600 stick packs and after they fell apart I decided I would start searching high and low for the best sub-C NiMh cells money can buy, iv been racing electrics properly for a few months now, gain a substantial amount of equipment and am set to continue to race them for a long time, so I though it would work out better if I got some top notch cells.
Now, my first idea would be IB4200 WC matched cells, rated as the best cells money can buy. After hours of research through websites, racing forums ECT I came to conclusion that this is not true, they apparently are extremely fussy to look after and the newest batch are only good for 10 cycles before drastically reducing performance. So these were out of the question.
I then found www.rcracechat.com and spent hours in the cells/chargers section to see what the top national drivers on there used, allot of people were moaning about IB4200 WC cells, allot of people were loving them, but at £40 a pop it was going to take me a while to get the extra money I needed (I had £100 to spend on cells). then I was directed to the East Power (EP) 4200mAh cells that are BRCA legal by our very own Dagger Thrasher, I then found all the threads on other UK based forums which quickly lead to show me that they were rivaling, if not beating the IB4200WC cells, so I spent another few hours shopping around and then came across Demonpowerproducts.co.uk...................
A fully assembled set of matched EP4200 cells with just wires (no connectors) will set you back £32.85
To good to be true I hear allot of you say? Well that’s the first thing that came to my mind as well, yet allot of people from various UK race forums have purchased there EP4200 cells from demon and are over the moon with them, but one thing stood in my way.... the 'out of stock' label
One phone call later tells me I can order them and at latest they will be here just after the weekend. Spot on, gives me time to get some new tires.

I wake up to find a nice large brown package sitting on the floor in my porch hidden behind touring cars, hauler bags and everything else RC. I quickly hurdle over my hauler bag, grab the package and jump back, dashing into the living room to open it, even though it was addressed to the cardholder I knew it was mine. First thing I noticed when I opened the package was just how well protected its contents were, it was lined in bubble wrap and the contents were packed in tightly with more bubble wrap, these weren’t going to get damaged in transport. So I pull out all the bubble wrap to see 3 perfect sets of EP4200 cells, all with rather impressive matching labels (the numbers were impressive, no art work here) and nicely assembled with silver connecting bars and high quality silicone wires. I had specified just wires and no connectors as I apparently soldered my deans + to -, doesn’t matter, they still function the same. Each set of cell were neatly presented each in there own clear plastic bags so that they didn’t short out when in transport, this is one fault I see is I would like the bags to have been re-sealable so I didn’t have to buy a battery storage box. First things first and that’s to put some connectors on, cue bring out the soldering iron…. I get the iron out, something magical happens and iv finished soldering them before you can even read about it. Right, now connectors are on and the charger is out, these cells being matched cells already have been cycled when matched so they are ready to charge and use, perfect, the race tonight will decide weather they are up to high drain brushless racing or not.
The cells are all presented very well, soldered very smoothly and very tightly, the wires are long, I didn’t bother cutting them down yet. They are put on so the matching labels face up. The numbers on the labels are probably the most impressive out of everything on them, all 3 packs the cells are matched at 1.30V, now this is an absolutely outstanding number for cells that are pretty much unheard of. The rest of the numbers are good to, I won’t go into all this, the pictures will do the talking. Now with one pack on charge as I write this we will soon see how these packs perform with the street test.
These things are quick! The charger went off, I unplug the cells and got them locked and loaded, plugged them in, turned on my transmitter and then turned on the mamba switch….
So I took it out side, placed it at the end of my drive and blipped the throttle, the car whizzed off the line like that I have never experienced (granted, I have never had the privilege of testing high performance cells before, just IB3600 stick packs, I thought I was impressed when I first used them). I was running for a good solid 6 minutes without any loss of punch what so ever, although I was expecting this seen as though they are matched cells I was still amazed at how much power these cells can kick out for the time they can. Things ended with a nice head on into a curb…. Just cracked the servo but a bit of CA glue soon sorted that. So I brought the car back inside to asses the damage, nothing to major else where. Now bearing in mind these cells where fresh of a 5A charge, they were warm when tested, been ran hard for around 6 minutes and when they cam off they were barely any warmer than when they came off charge, I have to give it to these cells, they do perform! But the proof is in the racing, which will come tonight in a unlimited 2wd class, anything goes except LiPo, I am running a B4 with mamba max 5700 and matched EP4200 cells, spectrum radio gear and it is well set up, no excuses then!
I started the night with all three sets of cells fully charged, arrived at the track to find it almost empty! So I unpacked, put #1 set of cells in and went out with my friend who is running a B4 with an 11x2 in, last week this car was slightly slower than mine down the straights, now I notice a huge difference, the way this car pulls away now is phenomenal, because I was only running on stick packs before, they was so much resistance in each pack it slowed all the punch down, now these cells are top notch and the soldering is perfect the punch gets there very smoothly indeed, and what a punch it is! I new Id see a huge difference with cells matched at 1.30V at 20A (works out at about 1.25 at 30A) but this was beyond me. The first round I have to admit, I was just getting used to it all, so I finished 3rd which wasn’t exactly spot on, still, 2 more rounds to go. With 5 heats after mine I had plenty of time to play with the car to try and get it to come out of the corners properly to show the true colours of these cells. Second round I had just repeaked #2 set which gave even more punch thus me only finishing 2 laps before a lower eye on a rear shock gave way. 3rd round saw still no driver improvement but, as noted by several spectators, my car was the quickest on the track, of which it wasn’t last week. The final saw some driver improvement on my behalf and I managed 2nd, I came back on after marshalling the next heat showing my car was as fast, if not faster than a B4 with Novak 4.5 brushless motor and matched GP4300 cells, I can put this speed increase solely down to the cells as I have done nothing else to make this car go faster.
As I stupidly didn’t check what the cells were taking in when I first charged them this is what pack #1 took in after 6mins of run time and stored overnight: 9.486V and it took on 4084mAh, so its fair to say these cells hold a fair bit of juice! On a discharge cycle at 1A from fully charged down to 5.4V per pack these cells are kicking out 4876mAh and my charger couldn’t get them fully down to 5.4V, they insisted on 5.9V for some reason!
Now, as you will probably of realized, I am really fond of these cells, I do recommend them, and I am sure you will notice a difference over pretty much any other cell you have tried. I know I was impressed by the labels, and everyone else was impressed by the labels so I am sure you will be too!

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...vedaddress.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/DSC01060.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/DSC01061.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/DSC01062.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/DSC01063.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...chinglabel.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...batterybar.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...olderjoint.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...olderjoint.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51900)

then found www.rcracechat.com (don’t join, no one has much sense of humor, to serious)

know what you mean :)

especially those 12th racers, oooooooops that's me included then :p

time to read that review now

Gazbaz2, I wasnt claiming that all IB cells were bab and unreliable, in fact i was claiming that a small batch on the newer IB4200 WCe cells were bad, i have never heard of IB3800's being bad so it OK :)

Hehe, bit hipocritical there as i joined :eh?: its a good forum if you want to take it that far but i got banned for 1 hour for posting a link to a motor on model sport :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazbaz2 (Post 51877)

What numbers are you getting, are they pro matched / team matched

:) gazbaz2, I bought the stock cells from Modeltech rather than matched ones so there are no labels on them. As I only really race at club level and I was told that I was unlikely to notice any real benefit I didn't bother with the matched ones.

Previous cells were Orion/Peak matched GP 3700's and after a dozen or so charges even using a Novak Smart Tray and Spintec charger the matching had gone.

As far as your IB3800's go I don't recall hearing the same concerns over the 3800's that there have been with the 4200's.

I would have quite happily stuck with GP 3700's but they now seem to be in short supply, the GP 4300's didn't get very good right ups so I looked for an alternative. A few people at the club were using the EP's with no issues at that time so I thought I'd give them a go. Since then another member reported having one cell explode but I don't know under what circumstances.:)

I can say this now, if my parents find out that one of my cells have exploded then im gonna be banned from this hobby for good :p So im begging that EP's dont explode on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramey (Post 51907)

Previous cells were Orion/Peak matched GP 3700's and after a dozen or so charges even using a Novak Smart Tray and Spintec charger the matching had gone.

You'll find this with all matched cells, IB, GP, EP etc no matter what regime people follow to look after them. The #'s on them are only as good as the day they come of the matching machine.

I agree, i still havent got myself an equalising tray yet so i dread to see what my cells are like, gonna have to do the ol' puppy dog eyes on some with a smart tray :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51943)

I agree, i still havent got myself an equalising tray yet so i dread to see what my cells are like, gonna have to do the ol' puppy dog eyes on some with a smart tray :p

shall I pack my Pro-Traks' & Novak STSE for Wed night?
should be there before 19:30

have you got a laptop to load Pro-Trak software onto?
bring it along if you have but not necessary, can manage without

The smart tray would be awesom, if i can sell my nitro touring car (dont like onroad anymore :P) thn i can afford one pretty soon but if i can lend someones then perfect :D

Dont meen to sound a bit noobish but whats a Pro-Trak? I do have a laptop though, i'll bring it on Wed ;)

Just out of curiosity, what do people think of my review up there? Just so i know what to improve in the future :)

I had a couple of packs of IB3800s and they were pants. 1 pack vented on the first charge and destroyed it's self, the other pack vented a couple of charges later...

Tried IB4200s in my 12th car and they were ok but not much better than my BRM cells for the extra money they cost.

GP3700s all the way... :D :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamD (Post 52023)

My IB3800 are fine and have been for well over a year now

Hmm:( iv never heard of any problems with any other of the IB's, only 4200's.... and even then its just the new batch which seems to be dodgey. I have never had a problem with my 3600's when they were stick packs and i dont now there soldered up, still fairly punchy just dont give much runtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazbaz2 (Post 52026)

My IB3800 are fine and have been for well over a year now

Yep and that's the point (sort of! :D )

They're so inconsistent from one pack to another.

I like GP cells because they are very robust, the punch doesn't matter too much to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamD (Post 52039)

Yep and that's the point (sort of! :D )

They're so inconsistent from one pack to another.

I like GP cells because they are very robust, the punch doesn't matter too much to me.

Again, had no problems with Consistency or duration with mine, they still last good 10/13 minutes in my XX4 with good punch after over a year old "NICE" ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 51988)

Dont meen to sound a bit noobish but whats a Pro-Trak?

£139.83 including vat :D

Now you can study before Wed night :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx (Post 52032)

my 3600's when they were stick packs and i dont now there soldered up

Stick packs usually have a strip of metal thats machine spot welded to the + & - of the cell. They can be split to make saddle packs if your carefull

Quote:

Stick packs usually have a strip of metal thats machine spot welded to the + & - of the cell. They can be split to make saddle packs if your carefull

Ye thats what i have done, noticed a fair bit of performance gain in the punch area but are now just used as practice cells now i have my EP's :D