I understand exactly what you're saying but I was meaning the techology and reliability is sound. We have a club that needs a complete timing gear set but don't have £3000 to spend so we've have looked into most of the common alternatives but nothing seems to be as easy to use as the MyLaps.

I actually thought of buying the decoder myself. It sounds a bit mad as theyre £2000 but they hold their money and are always in demand. The Old old systems are still selling for silly money. In contrast I have a 1/5 FG Evo that has about £2000 invested in it which if I came to sell it would fetch about £600-700 max even tho its absolutely mint and I hardly use it.

Mad-wolfie

To answer your question about sun light ,NO it does not affect it.Also the I-LAP will still read even with dirt and mud on it.We use it for outdoor off road and have not had any problems!I think if you and some other's on this forum went to a track using the I-LAP system ,and race for a day with it.You would change your mind about it and would say it is a great system.I believe racers just have to use it and ALL questions about it would be answered!

sean

I thought it would be useful to put my side of the story as some smartalec's on here seem intend on spouting off views without even thinking first...

First of all, the club I setup does not run I-Laps yet, but have purchased one and in fact had it delivered today. I have spoken with many 'local' clubs who use it in the UK and everyone has told me it works perfectly, and it's even used by Gokarting clubs so it's very robust.

I have tested the full kit today and everything works, even beneath a painted bodyshell, I think the point about being visible from the windscreen is simply to ensure the best chance of being counted, but I found the sensors worked fine, even with my dark blue painted bodyshell.

Unfortunately, there are some on this forum who think RC racing is only for those who want to participate in National meetings. Well surprise suprise, RC racing can be enjoyed, and should be enjoyed by everyone, even those who have no interest in trying to get their name up in lights!!! The only reason our club affiliated with the BRCA was for insurance purposes as I couldn't find a better deal anywhere. We run a very successful local club that is here for local drivers, not those who like to drive up and down the UK every weekend. You keep doing what you do and we'll keep providing a fun and entertaining environment for those who enjoy what we do.

None of our members have had a problem with paying the £35 we are charging them for their personal transponders. We do in fact have some members who race at bigger meetings and they've also bought the PT's for the I-Laps system we now own and will be racing in 2010.

Sean, I'm with you on this one, we are a local club who've only been going for 6 months, we may have 18 members and a pool of 35 drivers who come from week to week, but there is no way we could afford the AMB system. It's a rip off and the sooner local clubs become aware of this the quicker I-Laps will establish here in the UK.

For what it's worth to those who slag it off (not that they will bother to read this :cry:) I have had lots of PM on this forum from clubs up and down the country who are keen to see how we get on with it as they to feel the same way as we did about the overpriced circuit board and chips that AMB sell.

As to the BRCA, well they did look into changing, but have stuck with AMB - albeit under a new name following the merger of two companies. Still the over priced kit for local clubs to purchase...

Discussion and debate is a great thing, shame it get's ruined by those who are less informed and blinkered :eh?:

PS. A huge thanks to the author of the OP for all the free PR you have given us ;)

bedsrrmcc

You bought a great system for the club.Please post once the club guy's have had a chance to race with it.If you have any question about it please ask ,i may be able to help.One thing ,even though it read through the blue paint in the body.It would still put it in a clear spot on the body.
Just wondering how many bridge sensor's did you end up getting? we used 8 for a ten foot track width.

Best of luck with the I-LAP and racing!:thumbsup:

Sean

Yep, I will still put it into a position where the sensor can see it through the windscreen, but it was just interesting to know that it can still be read through dark paint! Just shows what a good system it is really.

I will certainly be posting reviews of this system as so many people have been keen to know how we get on. I'm just so glad that a guy at our club pointed me to this system :)

Everyone at the club has been waiting months for this to come... :drool:

We've got 5 sensors for a 2m wide start finish line indoors. We shall be ordering a few more once the outdoor track is built, but we are currently going through planning permission so hard to tell what width we shall have, though the size of the land means it's going to be big... NO! VERY BIG :woot:

We already have the JCB ready and waiting to start building the track...

Keep an eye out on our web site at www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk for news updates about the outdoor track - the wait is really going to be worth it for all our current club members and those who have already shown a strong interest in running off road when we start.

FYI we are going to be running 1:10 and 1:18 buggies / trucks outdoors.

The only thing about the AMB system is that surely, in this circumstance, it's better for all if there is a monopoly in place? You know that pretty much any club you turn up to will run AMB, and your PT will work.

Even the new RC4 transponders aren't that expensive.

I will say though, an MRT system (copy of the AMB one, but will work in conjunction) would be the best bet - still supports everyones AMB PTs, but also new MRT transponders - perhaps have an extra digit for the MRT PTs, so there is no clashing to worry about?

Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.

The problem with having a Monopoly has been clearly shown in the price that the AMB system costs?

I know it's not a great comparision but... I can get a fully functional HD handheld video recorder, high spec PC and software to edit the HD Video, HD DVD burner to burn discs a HD DVD player and a good sized HD LCD TV screen to watch the HD video on and still have change from what it would cost a small start-up club to pay to be 'part of the AMB gang!' :eh?:

Look at all the technology that goes in all the above, then look at the technology that goes into an AMB system and tell me why it costs £1000's instead of £100's to purchase...?

The answer is: MONOPOLY.

That's why it is not good for the sport at local level.

Monopolies are rarely a good thing. It's cool that I can take my PT anywhere and it will work and all, but the flipside is that AMB can charge practically whatever they want and people have to pay it. If there were two serious contenders producing lap counting technology, there's no way the kit would cost so much - it's that simple. They might not be that expensive to you, but to club racers who are on more of a budget, it's perhaps a different matter. MRT have shown that there's nothing about the transponders that means they have to cost *that* much - and I'd be willing to bet they could come down further if AMB cut their prices in response.

Really, though, it's not the cost of the transponders that gets me so much: people who don't want to pay the PT tax can always use club handouts. It's the cost of the detection gear, and the fact that it's such a massive hit for the clubs. If the evidence on oople is anything go buy, racers are really intolerant of clubs using non-AMB systems, which hardly helps. While it might be a bit more hassle for you, you should be happy that they're encouraging competition amongst lap counters, so that more clubs will be able to afford such systems in the future.

In fact, I don't use an AMB (can't afford one - though might get an RC4), I use an MRT.

Using some simple economics, a monopoly is a good thing in this case - hopefully AMB/MyLaps will learn this time that if you raise the price so high, that profit margin will attract competitors (as it has done). This has caused AMB to drop the price of the new RC4 to just a little above the MRT. This is practising predatory pricing - they are trying to force the competitors out of the market. Hopefully this experience that if they charge what they want, people will find alternatives, will cause them to keep the price low enough that competitors won't be attracted by the rediculously high profit margins of before.

I'd agree that the comparison between the AMB system and the HD capable equipment isn't a good one. They are completely different entities - sure they are both electronic equipment, but look at the production numbers! An AMB decoder is hardly going to be more than a 100s or low 1000s production number, whilst an HD TV will be produced in 10,000s at least. Also, TV manufacturers tend to be large companies with resulting efficiency gains - due to economies of scale. Not only that, as I have found with 'RC electronics' vs 'consumer electronics', the RC electrics are made to a far higher quality - just a look at the operating temperature ranges will show you the difference in component quality - for example an ESC - rated to go from about -20°C to 80°C, whilst a TV from 10°C to 40°. The components must be far, far higher quality to be able to withstand that. This does even extend into off-track equipment such as chargers, power supplies et al, so I'd have reason to believe the AMB equipment is made to similar standards - they don't tend to fail!

an led vary rarely fails..but it doesnt cost over £90 :)

there are no moving parts,very minimal power usage so shouldnt really go wrong,the mrt ones are just as reliable and half the cost,as you say,i think thats why they have dropped the price which is great for the consumer.

what i never understood is why,in this age where electronics are getting cheaper and cheaper,does the amb pt double in price over the last few years,its certainly not inflation.

Scott, you seem to think that this post was aimed at upsetting you some how when in fact all I asked was a simple question, not a view. And in fact, I did think about it before asking :)

As to "Discussion and debate is a great thing" I agree with you .......... and that's exactly what we are doing in this post. Not so sure I agree with the "less informed and blinkered" bit, as that's what the post was meant to do ......... inform me :)

And the free PR won't do your club much good will it? ............. you don't want anyone to travel to your club to race :):confused:

[QUOTE=bedsrcmcc;320526]Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.







Hi Scott, why are you not interested in having more people come race at your club???
I think the more our sport/hobby has new members the better it is???

12th scale nationals

Most cars used open cockpit style shell, no clear windscreen for sensor to look through.

Can't see them swapping to this system as it would mean using closed cockpit shells which are considered by most to be inferior to the open cockpit for handling.

And then there's the Mardave Sidecars also

So you make a small hole in the shell for the sensor to go through. Not rocket science!

Anyway I'd like to point out that the I-Laps PT costs just £35, which means you could have got an MRT PT for tracks with AMB/MyLaps systems, and an I-Laps PT for the same price as the old AMB PTs! So no extra cost involved at all!

The fact is that even today many small or new clubs still time by the old fashioned manual 'numbers on the car' system. Why? Because its so much cheaper. Smaller clubs simply can't afford AMB/Mylaps, even used ones are pricy.

The result is something I'm sure those older hands can't fail to have noticed - the steady decline of the small 'local' club in favor of the larger 'regional' club. And this in turn leads to a drop in young people joining the sport as most of them can't travel any significant distance to race. As a teacher I work with plenty of kids who are fascinated by my cars and would love to go racing, but couldn't possible convince their parents to drive them 45min-1hr to drop them at the track every Sunday. When I grew up little local clubs of 12-20 were common and these were never far away, so new drivers didn't need to travel much.

I'm not suggesting the current situation is AMB/Mylaps fault - its vastly too complex for that, but anything that helps redress it by helping the small club is a positive in my book

[QUOTE=David Church;320587]I appreciate that there are some die-hard racers that have AMB PTs who travel up and down the country to go to meetings and I do not have a problem with that.

Our club has been setup for those in the Bedfordshire and surrounding area. We have clearly laid out what we do and how we go about it and we chose the I-Lap system based on cost and the fact that there are many clubs in the UK now using it and the feedback we've had is very very positive. As mentioned, I've been contacted by lots of clubs in PM's to let them know how we get on.

The fact so many have done so via PM says a lot to me. The fact they do not want to be shouted down for not choosing an AMB system maybe? :confused:

If there are drivers who think we should be using an AMB system, fine. We don't so don't bother coming to visit us. We have more than enough people interested in racing with us and other clubs who run it, so in time there will be just as many people using I-Laps as there are AMB which is great for our hobby and therefore I-Laps should be supported by as many as those who support AMB.

The beauty of this world is we all have a choice. Our choice was I-Laps, others have a chocie to visit us and use it or not - simple as that. :thumbsup:

HERE HERE :drool:

I think you've hit the spot with this post.

Too many people on this forum think the world revoles around regional and national meetings - well surpirse surprise it doen't :thumbdown:

Our club is a LOCAL club and that's how I want it to stay. As I've mentioned before, if I could find cheaper public indemnity insurance I would leave the BRCA in a second. That's the only reason we are affiliated with them as they don't really give much support to the small local clubs and are only interested in supporting regional and national meetings/groups.

We have lots of young kids racing with us and it's a great atmosphere for all. I've raced at regional meetings in the past and maybe I had a bad experience, but I wouldn't say it was enjoyable at all. I race because I love racing RC cars. I have no interest in being the best in my region or the UK. I simply enjoy providing an environment where fellow fans of RC cars can have fun too - that's what the goal of our club was and we are doing very well :)

I've also run clubs in the past where we have had 100 drivers turn up for an outdoor meeting and we've managed to keep that same feeling which is a great thing to see. Yes we race competitively, but at the same time we do not want to scare off new blood into the sport.

One of these days you will read your own posts and realise that your tone upsets people quite a lot - it certainly has at our club!!! :mad:

Just because clubs like ours do not do things your way does not mean you are right, or even that we are right.

It's a matter of choice. You choose your way and be happy, and we'll choose our way and be happy too.

The I-Laps system is all well and good for onroad - no denying it. But for off-road (where it may have rained?) a sensor that relies on line of sight isn't going to work great. Sure, when it's dry and dusty, it'll work fine, but any weather change (and look at the UK - it's hardly dry all the time), and the system isn't going to be effective, particularly when cars come back looking like this:
http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2008-Rac...39_Me9NZ-M.jpg

I love that shot Marvin :thumbsup:

However, our club's long term goal for the off-road track is to be astro-turf so our cars will never get to look like that one in the photo.

[QUOTE=bedsrcmcc;320601]
I don't think it is about die hard racers that travel up and down the country, I think it is about racing full stop, and you have said you only want local racers! Certainly everyone should be welcome, no matter where you live or what transponder you use!!!
And as far as the association you have with the BRCA, well you should appreciate their help, after all they provide you with insurance, and the officials do this with no reward, ie no pay!!! So what do you expect from the BRCA???

The overall impression that I'm getting from a minority of some on this forum is that if you do not run an AMB system then your club is not worth visiting :bored:.

It's about choice. I'm happy to welcome anyone to our club, but they have to play by our rules. If they are not happy, fine. Go and find another club that will.

Trust me, I'm getting emails from a lot of people keen to know when our off-road track is up and running and they know we'll be running the I-Laps system.

We as a club have no worries looking forward... :)

I'm just a little sick of the negative comments being made by a small number of people about I-Laps and I bet they have never raced at a club that use them...

Here's to a fantastic 2010 for our club and our members. :thumbsup:

I'm not saying that the iLaps system is bad - far from it. I think you need to stop taking it so personally. But for certain circumstances, the AMB is better (off-road, with no luxury of astro). Also, at the moment we take for granted that we can go to a club and use our PT, and not have to worry about handouts.

I asked you already in a PM (that you never replied to) what you meant about the "tone" of my posts? and when you say it upsets a lot of people at your club I find that hard to believe as I met three of your member last week when they travelled to look at another club and they didn't seem upset by my posts at all, in fact they introduced themselves and had a thoroughly enjoyable evening. :thumbsup:

My original post on your forum asked what class would I be racing in if I came to your club with my box standard micro 1/18th scale buggy, used by 90 per cent of the country at CLUB level. You deleted that post and the reason for deleting it says "this guy has nothing sensible to say". I pointed out that almost everyone in the country uses the LRP Shark and that it wouldn't fall inside your £150 all-in rule. You replied to my PM stating that perhaps I shouldn't waste my petrol coming to race at your club with my "expensive" kit. My kit isn't "expensive" it's the same as 90 per cent of rest of the club level drivers that have a micro :confused:

I like to travel to other clubs and race, especially when I found out that you race on slippy flooring, and have done so for years and not once has any club I have been to ever asked me to leave because my kit is too expensive :(

The I-laps system is irrelevent, if I liked racing at your club I would carry on racing there regardless of the lap counting system being used, the thing I can't understand the most is the fact that you don't want anyone who races outside of the area to visit your club :thumbdown:

When you say "the area or surrounding area" how far afield are we talking? I race off-road 1/10th the most and the nearest outdoor track is Silverstone, the next nearest is an hours drive away. Silverstone currently run 2 or 3 meetings per year so obviously I have to travel to race regularly. When your off-road track is up and running will you only be catering for "local" drivers, or can anyone come and race? :)

wow what a warm welcoming attitude :rolleyes:


wishing all you guys at the Royston Vasey RC club every success with your local championship for local drivers!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lpwrwngWjN...400/accuse.jpg

We welcome anyone to come along and join our club to race indoors with 1:10th scale Touring Cars and from 2010 we will also be catering for the great little bundles of RC fun which are the 1:18th scale buggies and trucks.

As and when our outdoor track planning permission goes through we will have a stunning venue for regular meetings throughout the year every 2 weeks (weather permitting) and we shall be running 1:10th scale buggies and trucks on that track and also entertaining the little cars again with 1:18 scale buggies and trucks, while still racing every Friday indoors.

As a club we decided not to follow the BRCA rules to the letter and therefore are not so strict which allows those who've never raced before to feel very welcome indeed. Our web site has all the details. Currently there are no rules for the smaller cars but the club's committee will be discussing this next year as we see how this new class for the club progresses...

Best news of all is that the club has finally taken delivery of the I-Laps lap counting system which everyone at the club has been waiting several months for now since we first discussed it. Don't worry if you do not own the Personal Transponder for the I-Laps system, the club has purchased some extras which we will be renting out at each meeting.

The goal of the club has always been to encourage competitive driving which we certainly have each week, but more importantly to foster an environment that encourages new fans of racing RC to come along and feel welcomed and not fearful of racing with seasoned drivers. This is one area which the club excels in and everyone who comes along to race for the first time keep coming back for more.

We've welcomed dozens of potential young and old drivers new to the world of RC racing over the past few months and I'm sure that once Santa has dropped off what they were hoping to get that we shall be welcoming more new faces to the club in 2010.

Don't get me wrong, the BRCA is a good yard stick, but that does not mean that local clubs should be prevented from doing things differently, afterall as I've always tried to put across we offer choice - something different...

Make your choice :thumbsup:

That's the last on this matter from me :woot:

This system by robitronic seems to have the same basic priciple as the iLaps system.

http://www.robitronic.com/lap-counter-en.html

Are any clubs using this system?

219 Euro's for the basic system - decoder, bridge sensors and 3 PT's

29 Euro's per additional PT.

All plus postage/delivery.

Seems very similar to the i laps system, and looks quite well packaged.

Wow, what an amazing turn around from the earlier post where you didn't want any drivers turning up from around the country to race at your club ........... now you want to welcome anyone along with open arms as long as they are total beginners :woot:

What happens when they get better? ........... are they banned :confused:

Hi to all
This is my very first oople post so apologies to all if its not very well constructed !!
Having been involved with racing model cars since the late 80's i feel i have a fair bit of experience to fall back on !
I have followed this thread from the start and would like to give my opinion .When i started racing we had manual lap counting with clickers and bits of paper we moved through a sinclair spektrum based system through Amb 20 and now finally AMBRc .
We are now suffering with failure of handout transponders batteries are failing more frequently than we would like, a lot of our clubmembers have PT transponders but they are very expensive !!
I would welcome a competitive rival system .
To Scott well done for trying a new system best of luck and i think your last post was your best effort yet well constructed . A word of friendly advice welcome all drivers from all groups all clubs go through lean times at somepoint ours has . currently 50 drivers is average for a friday night club meeting ,look after the youngsters with little money the most they will be the future of your club.
I will follow the I laps system we may well be looking for an alternative ourselves

Dave Fiddling (Louth Radio Control Car Club)

Everyone seems to enjoy moaning a whole lot just because the reality is slightly different from the ideal.

I'm a "non local" driver who races regularly at the beds club.

I'm sure that Scott and the Beds club would love to use AMB/Mylaps for their club if it was an affordable system given the amount of money the club have available. This of course is the ideal but given that they didn't have the buddget for it, they seeked a viable alternative and the solution they reached was ilaps.

As a racer, I already owned an AMB PT. I believe I was 1 of about 3 or 4 regular racers who owned one. Most of the members at beds club are beginners who don't race at other clubs or at higher levels.

Given the above, I think the decision to go with ilaps and ask the 3 or 4 AMB owners to buy a new ilaps PT at £35 makes a lot more sense than asking almost 20 members buy a mylaps PT for almost twice as much and/or have the club shell out for much more expensive decoders/handouts etc.

On a different note, if the ilaps relys on line of sight but can work through paint on a body shell, whats to stop it from working a little bit mud/dirt on it? AMB pt's are not supposed to be mounted vertically or on top of carbon etc. but they still work despite that. I think although it's unlikely to be better than AMB/Mylaps (there I said it), I think that people are underestimating the capabilities of th eilaps system.

Once the club has their system sorted, I'll let you know how I get on with my ilaps PT compared to my AMB.

We at the momment run the AMB 20 system at our club and there is know way we could afford the rc system i think its well over priced for what it is. So a bit more competition would do know harm at all and may bring the price down on all lap counting systems. i will keep my eye on this system to see how it goes all the best with your club.
Darran (Leverton Raceway)

Scott,
Living not a trillion miles away from your venue I have kept my eye on these posts and had a look around your website.

Your facility looks great, loving the polished flooring! But I am also abit confused by the clubs stance on micro budget.

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/images/ga...the-pits12.jpg

(Taken from the Beds club gallery) An ST, running pro shocks, an MRT ESC and with flipped rear arms (none standard) is no where near £150 unless im missing a trick (in which case, ill take 5 of them!)

Before I even consider taking a trip over to Beds for some pre National practise what is the stance from your club on micros racing?

Just curious...

That will be one half of my fleet, Mr oxley sir :thumbsup:

We shall buy them all Mr Hampson sir! :D

This week that chassis was running the SC18 phat bodies blackjack short course truck shell in domino pizza colours :woot:

Hi Chris, doesn't that strike you as odd that you run the exact car at Bedford that I have but I was told by the Chairman to "not bother wasting my petrol with my expensive kit" :confused:

So what exactly is the ruling?, are Sharks banned or is it just me?

Maybe I'm not the right person to try and answer this but from the discussions in the forum and at the club meets, the idea is to have 2 classes for Micro. One which is pretty open for anything to run with and then also have a more controlled class where the car spec would be close to that of the RTR kits to encourage some budget racing.

Smartalec then commented on how there is now standard for budget micro racing and so the class would probably not work which Scott must have seen as not contructive for what he was trying to achieve.

The bottom line is that any micro should be able to run, they might just keep some of the cheaper ones seperate to have some controlled budget racing using micros as a platform.

I'm sure there will be an official answer soon enough

The plan is to hopefully have two class’s for the Micro cars.

One for stock cars under £150.00 and the other an open class, for the likes of Chris car in the photo.

Chris was the first person to bring a micro car down to the club, and I think most peoples thoughts were this looks like fun! And certainly brought a smile to my face when he was running it with the touring cars :)

The club has been looking at introducing a low cost or stock class (wasn’t necessarily 1/18thoff road micro, had also looked at Tamiya minis, Carismas etc) to help bring new members and was decided that maybe it would be a good idea to combined the two. But also have the open class so we could cater for everyone else that runs the micros :thumbsup:

Apparently they deliver, but only to the surrounding area :woot:

Correct, I pointed out that there was no actual stock class for micro's and that almost everyone in the country used the same car, the LRP Shark. Scott didn't seem to like that at all and although two other people on the forum (both regular micro racers) agreed with me he decided that the best option was to delete all the posts, the reason given, "these guys have nothing sensible to say". To be honest, I thought I was offering a new club some advice :confused:. I also replied to a post about control tyres. A suggestion was made about the Schumacher Rally Block in yellow compound and I pointed out that the best option on slippy floor would be WHITE compound. Although they appear to wear out quicker than yellow, on slippy floor only they will last for ages as even when the tread disappears the compound will keep them gripping the floor. This was again aimed at helpiing people at their club and not trying to upset anyone.

As i've said earlier, I would actually like to run at the club as i've never run entirely on slippy floor with the micro and it sounds like fun. :)