Jim (Dixon) says:

A Mc phearson strut is the same way up as our toy cars.

On a WRC they are also the the same way as our toy cars because the remote reservoir can be mounted at the body/chassis end.

But he does say some damper designs should be run the other way up, dependant on the damping type and dependant on where the valving is located.

So some run one way, and some the other. :D :D

G

original the stanchions were in the tree's, as it was easier to make fork tree's to carry the stanchions. Then someone realised, that if they turned the forks the other way up, the front end remained more rigid, and called them upside-down forks, it gave the front end tighter handling due to less flex.

Regarding the meat, if it feels good, do it! ;)

I'm not sure, but don't oil filled shocks have to be the way up we use em, because of the air inside them, it would be in the piston part of the shock if run upside down.

cheers dan,

yeh my situation is strange at the moment....

people can say as they wish. it only really matters on the track....lol

but yeh some people need to chill out. on one of my real car forums a few years someone scratch their car, when asking how to mend this problem some complete tool said that they should use W40 sand paper...to which the idiot did and it left a nasty mess....

now this was an extreme measure, but it comes to show that stupid advice can often be taken and become regretable.......

keep that in mind when saying something stupid or something you dont fully understand.

i do not know everything and the only 2 people i would really trust with setups on this forum are rich barton and rich cree.

lee

Can i be the MEAT !........Hubba..Hubba!!!!! ;) ;) :p :p

I think everyone has a few select people they trust. I trust Phil Sleigh, Phil Channon and Stu evans. There people you can rely that what they tell you is good advice.

A

you know its serious when jimmy intervenes! :D and whatever has been said it werent me .......:o lol

its better to aks questions, i am one for that, but if you dont ask you dont get to know, u gotto ask someone you trust. but then agian theres the point at which your answerer gets pissed off with you for asking os many q's lol, thts generally my case.

Strange someone should mention upside down shocks, as I actually came across this today doing some background reading, and in the damper section it mentioned them as being fitted 'upside down' compared to R/C stuff, took me 2-3 times reading it to realise I was reading it correctly after all :D as for performance reasons, I'm not entirely sure, it could be that it's easier to direct airflow onto them for heat dissipation when they're 'upside down' in saloon and open wheel cars, but that's the only reason I can think of :confused:

edit: as to what northy said, i think that's a design point for the progressive damping, as in if you had the exact same damper, reversed the valving on it, and put it on the other way up it would work in the same way... but not sure on that, that's just how i understand what i've read :p

Correct me if im wrong.......(:) I've asked for it there !)

But in a perfect world there should be no air in the oil section of the shock and there for would make no difference what so ever to the performance, as you are solely relying on the resistance caused by the oil flowing throw a restrictor i.e. the piston.
If you have a bladder in the shock which uses the trapped air as an overall buffer (as the sealed in air will compress but not escape) all that means is, it will be more progressive towards the end of the shock travel as it will get stiffer as the air is compressed !

This is how i see shocks working. Remember the primary function of a shock is the reduce the bounce of the spring!

So to me the shock will work either way up, just doesnt look conventional thats all

Im no vastly experienced racer but i am an engineer and deal with a lot of hydraulics in my work.

Now can i be the meat......;)

Laid myself wide open here and ive got broad shoulders and an open mind, so feel free to correct me. Its never to late to teach an old dog new tricks.

It matters which way it is up because of the unspring weight.

wikipedia refering to bike forks :
"Upside-down" (USD) forks are installed inverted compared to typical forks, with the tubes at the bottom and the bodies at the top. This decreases the unsprung weight of the motorcycle and improves its handling. USD forks are usually found on sportbikes, though Honda's large power-cruiser, the Valkyrie, sported USD forks.


like I said tho, any shocks mounted the other way seems to be because of access, design or other matters, airflow, but not all out shock absorbing performance... Should I put the oven on? ;)

If you ran our shocks upside down you would have air not oil next to the seals, this means there would be no pressure on the seals and they would take in air when extending and piss oil out when compressing so they woldn't stay fresh as long

Interesting discussion.

Unsprung weight meaning the weight of the suspension arm, wheels etc from the hingepin and top of the shock spring outwards eh? I get confused a bit with that.:eh?:

But I did wonder about the advantages of lower CG, as the shocks are mounted quite high up, and reasonably heavy (considering the weight of the car). Could be interesting to test anyway (Clearance around the shock body cap if mounted upside down the trickiest part methinks.)

In the early days we ran the shocks upside down so our Scorcher or Scorpion shocks still had oil in them at the end of the race. Those single O ring seals never worked even when new:D

Doh!

Unspung weight, yes i'll give you that. That will teach me to have a few to many glasses of wine before opening my mouth/keyboard.....:)

But in practice you should have no air in the shock chamber mixed with the oil so there for the pressure would be on the seal.

granted if you had air in the shock then it would create a vac behind the seal as the shock extends poss alowing air in.

so a rant thread has quickly turned into shock thread........

Someone listened to radio one the other morning!

How funny was that!?:D

Meat!? mad

Who wants to be the two veg. Back on post I think people on here know who to take advise from, and the people that do give duff advice just want to be involved with the discusions and most the time they will be corrected and they will learn and be able to give the correct advice next time. Its not just on forums that you can get duff info you can at the track as well. I have been racing on and off fore twenty years now and I still take advice from people as I cant get my head round setups so you just have to learn who to take advice from.:)

I was gonna say it might have something to do with the unsprung weight but i still need to read that section 28 times so i understand which bits sprung and which bit isn't ! :D

Hi Tis only me (again i hear u say !)

Im back and clear of alcohol this time. Just read back through this post and i was explaining about a shock.
It will perform perfectly well as a shock at any angle (as a shock!) it may not improve the handling caracteristics of the car (as jimmy quite rightly corrected me about unsprung weight. But hey i'd had a few and it was late...... Good on ya jimmy...;) ) but i didnt say it would just said the shock will work, which it will perfectly well at any angle.

P.S. Jimmy i prefer the frying pan, as i luv jumping out into the fire and back......:p

I heard it on the way to work.. twas funneh as fewk.

That is a nice thing to say Ash - thanks.
I have to add that my advice to Ash has been very simple - run a steady motor and make the car easy to drive. I do know how to do that, but I know little about how to make a car ultimately fast.