Hi Guys

Thanks for all the feedback - it's really useful to get it from people who have been around offroad for long enough to make really sensible comment.

I was only talking about regionals though - are some of you lot lucky enough to have regionals with 120 drivers ? - I wish we were in our region.

Also I agree it gets harder if its more than one set (but does it have to be ?)

Also you only need to spot check these after booking in - just make the penalty VERY severe for anyone cheating.

Imagine this scenario - only 3 rear wheels (one set plus 1 wheel for calamities)

You mark them when drivers book in

Then you spot check - anyone found with unmarked tyres goes home - do it twice and you are banned from the whole series.

I am sure drivers would keep an eye on each other to make sure no one 'accidently' had an unmarked set on.

If you think its a no goer I am happy to accept that

Our club runs a similar series like you are talking about Rob.. and you've previously asked me about it. But the main factor for us is trust.. we trust each other to run to the requested specs (blue schumy rears and a 19 turn motor).
The series is good, the racing is closer for our members, and gives the chance for people who are not normally at the top in modified to be up there. But isn't for everyone.. i like the idea, but would much prefer it if we ran modifieds as thats what regionals and nationals are ran on so any practise i have i want it to be based for that..

The racing is very good.. the lack of grip is interesting and makes for a good meeting.. but as said, it isnt for everyone.

Rob,

I think one set would be interesting if the weather changes, but it would be the same for everyone! :D

It is only sensible to control the rear tyres as many people 'tune' the front tyres to the varying track condions, especially in 2wd.

I would love to give it a go.

From a NE point of view, I know a lot of the regular A main guys run there old tyres from the Nationals, so they perhaps don't have a huge layout anyway.

G

In our region (East of England) our tracks are mainly grass with one (maybe 2 soon) with some astro sections.

I am guessing that if everyone was on green Minispikes they could get round pretty welll in all conditions - or am I wrong (I could be thats why I ask)

yes I was only thinking about policing the rears.

Green minispikes wear the fastest of any in my experience. Blues are good though.

Interesting posts chaps.

Chris, I wasn't going anywhere with this post, just was pondering one evening, so posted to get others views.

Looks like a few people can see the 'hobby' entering a technology / wallet unfriendly level as it did (I believe ?) with touring cars.

It's interesting to see who looks upon this passtime as a hobby, as opposed to anything else. Stu, you obviously just go along for a laugh, I go because I enjoy the racing too, and I enjoy being competitive. I'm always happy if I think my car could have won the meeting, and it was just me that let it down ! I've seen Mr Lowe drive one of my cars, and it looked amazing, so I know i'm the weak link. I guess i'm fortunate that I can have a competitive car, i'm sure many of our fellow hobby drivers cannot simply due to the cost. The day I cant afford to be competitive (in my eyes) is the day I stop racing, whats the point, after all it is racing ?

I still think that the 'hobby' has become far more than that, and that manufacturers / products / cells / tyres etc are way out of control. If we all turned up to a big meeting, were handed a set of tyres, a motor and raced with them all day, then Yes Neil Cragg would probably still win, but it would be far less expensive for the rest of us, more people could afford to take up the hobby and it would be just as much fun. Just a thought.

I actually I didn't use one set of new tires for this years outdoor regionals, still did ok though ;)
Usually at nationals I run whatever I have lying around in practice and round 1, new set to do 2 and 3, then a second new set for 4 and the final. Currently I'm the limiting factor not my cars, as there's been situations at nationals where I've put some new rubber on and made a small mistake costing a couple of seconds which negated the point of putting new tires on.
Throughout the year I might use £20's worth of shock seals and (with the Checkpoint's anyway) a couple of pairs of brushes per car and thats it. Excluding nationals the biggest expense for me is usually booking in fee's :p

Richard my sonm you have just convinced me off road is the future, i probably spend more on two days racing in on road touring cars than you have all series.

cheers boys

Lee.

Welcome on board. A new racer !
Don't be fooled by Richards optimistic account of cost unless you get a lift to all the events and run on hand-me down tyres ! I guess what you saying Rich is that you buy NEW sets for Nationals, run a set once or twice, then save them for the Regionals ? Still a BIG expense. Looks like next time I need a decent set of tyres i'll just have to dig into your plentiful reserve of cheap 'almost-new' tyres !

I do think one good example of kit winning over skill in our region is the racing between you (Richard) and Ben Riley. He normally out guns you in terms of outright speed and is able to make an error or 2 and still catch you up. I would say that when he beats you it's his superior power that allows him to take the win, as you generally drive better and more consistenlty, without as many mistakes, wouldn't you agree ?

That's part of the reason I try to spend as little as possibe at club/regionals, it adds to the satisfaction :-)

I admit I might be a bit optimistic with the costs but it's not far off, I am excluding nationals though where I do tend to spend quite a bit.

I can see the argument for less money being spent than you would first assume when using tyres from the previous National for the next regional.

BUT

How far are we from a situation when F3's can't get a place in Nationals (and I am a firm belive in Nationals being for the best so don't worry there)

If you are an F3 or lower then you won't have left over national tyres as you wouldnt have an entry for a national - THEN - if you wanted to get in a national next year you need to get to F2 - how are you going to do that ?

A set of tyres verey run maybe ?

Just looking at a worst case scenario

Race in regionals and become an F2, or highly places F3, this is the reason regionals are here to gain a good F grade for decent placing in nationals and other events.

If you dont race nationals, then buy a set of tyres for a regional, and use them for club days.

Hi Paul

Sorry did explain myself well.

What I am wondering is will regionals become a tyre war in the scramble for a licence good enough to get a national entry ?

This thread has got quite boring again.

lmao :o

G

OK I can take a hint :(

<crawls back under rock>

Don't worry Rob, that's Stu just been Stu's ( a tool!) lol :D

G

You don't need new tyres al lthe time at regionals to get a decent grade, change of driving style, or set up can make up for tyres wearing. of course there is a certain point where only new tyres will work.. but you can compensate for it.. i've done it for most of this season.

I ran two full nats on one set of tyres lol, although it isnt as fast they are much safer and time can be made up when others make mistakes.
Although this year i havn't conserved tyres and havn't done as well!

I am enjoying offroad so much now that I will be gutted if it goes the way that TC has.

It's been a long time since I have had this much fun.

I don't think it will Rob, just look at cells and motors, people can not use the power! Many top drivers have only being using 12's in 2wd at Nats this year :o

G

I think some team drivers are still useing 3300's and 3700's, i noticed a LOT more wear on my tyres with my 4200's than 3700's and my best result came with 3700's (43rd i think)

This weekend I ran my B4 with some cheapo stick packs in and a 12t motor - was PLENTY quick enough

After the meet I tried my Pred with a machine wind 12x3 and some unmatched GP3300s - you wouldn't exactly have called it slow.

The thread seems to have been hijacked again (like all threads like this seem to be) and turned into a debate about costs and a call for controlled class racing.

So I may as well stick my oar in.

The idea that a controlled class will decrease costs and make the racing closer is a MYTH.

You will always find someone that is prepared to spend MORE than you within the controls. If you have a controlled motor, you will find someone that has six of them to find the best. A controlled tyre and you will find someone with a dozen sets made up with different inserts or spikes cut for testing.

And you will also have people that just run with old equipment, are in the bottom half of the scoreboard, and LOVE every minute of it.

At the end of the day the people that win are the best drivers. Money doesn't by good thumbs.

So lets stop the moaning and just enjoy ourselves. It is after all a hobby, very few of us actually get paid for it or have a commercial interest in it.

If you don't like the cost of nationals, stay at the regionals. If you don't like the cost of regionals, stick to your local club. And if you don't like the club, just run it in the garden!

Be excellent to one another, and party on dudes!

[quote=sosidge;13171]

At the end of the day the people that win are the best drivers. Money doesn't by good thumbs.
[quote]

I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, but from my point of view having finished 4th at the last Euro's i did in 2001 it's frustrating for me to try and have another go at the hobby, knowing i'm not going to really do any good without spending some serious money that i just don't have at the moment, so all in all yeah being a good driver will get you so far, but you still need the good equipment to be able to compete at the highest level, and even on the way up you need to spend good money to compete with those around you and prove you're any good.

I was just pointing out that having to start out again has made me realise just how expensive it is, and i'm not surprised that the amount of "new" racers is rather low..... after all without new racers we're fighting a losing battle

Nick, I agree with you entirely.

New racers ARE thin on the ground. It's not just the cost of racing to blame, a lot of it is to do with the current populariy of Nitro trucks among beginners. These are not as easy to race as the old Tamiya buggies most of us probably started with more than a decade ago! But that is a whole different debate.

National level is ALWAYS going to be expensive. Perhaps it's fairer for me to say that with similar equipment, the better driver will always win.

But if you stick to regional or club level, it follows that you shouldn't have to spend as much to be competitive.

I wasn't moaning - honest!

I was trying to get peoples thoughts

I am spending what I want and am having fun :D

I will soon let you all know how "competitive" i can be with old gear :D I'm doing the CML raceway winter series as Lee's a good mate of mine and it's only down the road.... how's this for old skool? RC10 B3, with KO 2015 Servo, KO Radio, LRP IPC Speedo, and possibly 3300 mah Batteries..... oooh and a load of old Proline Tyres from Euro's 99, 2000 and 2001 :cool:

I'm quite looking forward to it... but feel i may be shocked.

Really? I think you may be pleasantly surprised! I'm sure you'll let us know what "old equipment" can achieve with the right thumbs.

It would be good if i can just get the thing round well enough without crashing - i've only run 2 battery packs through the car so i'm bound to be a bit rusty but it should be fun....

I will put up a post after the first meeting with details of all expenditure (so far under £150) so it might be interesting.