My judgement of these cells.

Pro's:
Cheap
Cheap
Cheap



Con's:
You'll need several packs to attend a race meeting, as they will need to be cooled before recharging (realistically get 2 uses per pack per day)

The life of a NIMH pack is far shorter than Lipo

NIMH packs deteriorate in performance very quickly from new and seem average for a few months before dieing.

NIMH packs need to be balance discharged (can't do this to a pre-assembled stick pack - so life is even shorter)

High spec NIMH packs come loose, need to be assembled - PITA

Run time on NIMH is less than LIPO for equivalent MAH, as NIMH's self discharge much quicker.

NIMH cells require careful use to keep them healthy.

Have been known to go 'bang' like a firework - most people have seen/witnessed this.



LIPO
Pro's:
Only need 1 pack, as can be re-used over and over in 1 day.

No need to discharge (or buy a discharger)

Hold charge for long period - can be charged days/weeks before next use

No need to balance regular

No 'voodoo' to make them perform - reliably high performance

A cheap charger is as good as an expensive.

Light weight


Con's:
More expensive per pack.

Rumour has it they can set on fire, but I have never seen or heard of any which have.

Must not be discharged, as they will die... (won't happen in a 5 minute race anyway)

I guess it depends on the race meet you go to. At my track there's a short interval between races, so I need three packs to run for the (half) day - any less and I wouldn't be able to charge in time for every race - so I'd need 3 LIPO packs, too. I guess if there's a much longer interval you could get away with one LIPO.

Obviously LIPOs are the better choice if you have loads of money to hand, but the OP asked what you would need to just get a feel for it. The startup cost of rc racing is vicious - getting a few cheap NIMH cells now, and buying LIPOs in a year or so's time is an attractive option for people who don't have wads of cash, or who aren't sure if they'll stay with it. I came back to rc racing about 6 months ago with cheap NIMH cells and some good quality second hand brushed kit, and it cost me well under half what picking up a LIPO/brushless setup would have - and I'm competitive at a club level. I'll think about picking up brushless and later some LIPOs in a few months, but no-one who is just starting out is going to want for performance with a NIMH pack and a cheapish charger/discharger, and it helps spread the cost.

Do you really need three Lipos though?

Because I'd be seriously surprised if you were using much over 1/2 capacity in each round - so you don't need an hour to recharge. In fact, you hardly need to recharge at all - I know a lot of 2wd club drivers using 4500+ mAh Lipos simply use them for 2 rounds before charging.

Even with 3 rounds and a final it works like this:

Pack 1: 1st and 2nd heats then stick on charge

Pack 2: 3rd and 4th heats

By now pack 1 will have been charging for at least 30mins even at the smallest clubs so will be above 50% capacity and therefore ready to go in the finals.

This to me is the real beauty of Lipo's - you don't need to start the race at 100% charge - all you need is enough to reach the finish.

Brushless wise the cheap Ezrun systems can be found on E-bay and are perfectly competitive at club level, yet cost no more than a brushed setup. If buying from Hong Kong via Ebay scares you Giant Cod now supply them in the UK. You'd want this esc and this motor for starting. Its called a 9T but since its not really 540 sized its more like a 10.5t in performance. The whole bundle comes to just over £60!

We usually get 6 races each in at my club over the course of about 3 hours. I concede that's probably unusual, though. At the moment I get through about 3/4 of my 3700 packs in a race, but I see that I could probably get away with running a high capacity LIPO pack and putting it on charge immediately after a race, then using a second one - I'd be running lowish by the last race, but I'd probably get away with it. Brushless would sap the power a bit less too, of course.

What I liked about going brushed was that I was able to start off with a slowish motor and buy dirt cheap replacement ones as I improved. I'm running a really nice 9x1 V2 now that I picked up virtually new for 12 quid, and it pretty much keeps up with the brushless systems at the club - seems approximately equivalent to a 6.5bl. Now that I can handle the speed, I can think about buying a good quality brushless system without having to spend 50 quid on a new motor as soon as I outgrow it. I wasn't aware of the EZrun systems, though - as you say, they seem like pretty good value for money, and low hassle. You'd still, as with brushed, want to replace it with a high quality sensored brushless system eventually, though.

What irritates me is that when I came back to racing and asked on a forum (not this one) what I needed to buy to stand a chance in a club environment, I got told that I needed a brushless system and LIPOs that would set me back several hundred quid, or I'd probably get blown away. I now have in my car £45 worth of batteries and £35 worth of speedo/motor (speedo being an LRP v6.1), and I'm doing just fine. Sure, I'm getting towards outgrowing it, but it's spread the cost to the point that I can afford it. I think it's easy to forget that some people want to try the hobby out, and might be wary about (or unable to) sink a vast initial investment in.

Under £100?
Im after a 4wd buggy thats cheap but can be upgraded (alloy parts?)
I was looking at the master smacker but not sure...

Also, do the mad rat have many upgrade parts, just looked on ebay and there just seems to be bearings

The Madrat is new, but already has masses of upgrade parts - they just haven't hit Ebay yet.
For starters it has a more expensive brother called the X-Pro which has the graphite and alloy bits. You can replace madrat parts with X-Pro parts as you wish - they are completely interchangable but the X-Pro uses the fancy materials. There are also already carbon towers, battery brace and rear t-Pieces available.

The Madrat family is going to be really big I expect, but it takes a while for hop-ups to appear.

You won't get a competitive 4wd for under £100 except used, and even then you'll be lucky. Besides, 2wd is cheaper, more popular and makes you a better driver.

Where can I get the graphite parts for the xpro from to replace the parts on the mad rat?

custom carbon look in the ansmann section

Stop and look at what you are doing dude... you just bought a cost concious car and are now willing to spend more money on it... Why didn't you buy something better equipped in the first place?

Or am I missing the point here..? :confused:

same reason buy things like the steath and fit factory teem parts to it i guess mine is stock havent had a problem some people just like carbon

But still to the point of what i would need. Someone i know has offered me some of his old trakpower 4900 lipos and some other odds and pieces that would help get me started (used tyres/wheels....light usage).

Is it better for me to buy these lipos as they will last me longer (i know he has looked after and stored them properly) rather than get some new nimhs?

The Lipos will perform better than those Vapex NiMH's for example. Because they don't have a memory effect, and don't get as hot as NiMH's Lipos have a good long in useage lifespan.

With the esc/motor I detailed and those 4900's you can expect to get 2 race runs per pack in a 2wd buggy easily enough.

thanks your advice it is great and is helping me a great deal in my choices.

Also how much will i be exspecting to spend per weekend racing (on average) on spares etc?

Well that depends on lots of things:

How often you crash (duh!)
What the track is like (hard walls, jumps that flip you over etc)
What car you are using
How fast you are going etc.

But I'd say one breakage a meeting on average represents a worst case, and there you are talking £5 tops. Its just it might be 4 weeks of nothing then one major one.

To be honest I find tyres a more significant running cost than spares.

Thanks Si Coe thats given me an insight into how much i can race etc etc.

Whats a good DC lipo charger for under £50 - if there is one:S

The reason I only recommend Brushless, is that with brushed - you are going to need to learn about rebuilding them regular, skimming, soldering brushes and timing vs gearing. Its all a faff that we all used to do, and makes RC racing less enjoyable especially for someone starting out. It also brought a separation between those who knew how to make thing work very well, and those who didn't - brushless has brought a level playing field to all racers.

The cost of the Losi Xceleron combo system is relatively low, when you weigh it up against the fact it requires minimal maintenance, will last far longer (per run and lifetime), and has no 'black-art' in terms of maintenance and preparation.

Just today somebody came into the shop who had bought a 12turn LRP brushed motor to start racing with from another shop, and id previously recommended brushless. He had no idea about skimming, brushes, timing or even gearing! I give that motor maximum 5 runs with his driving, and it'll become an expensive paperweight for him.

If you start out doing this cutting corners to save money, it'll shade an otherwise very enjoyable sport/hobby and cost more in the long term.

The Losi 9603 charger, with Core RC 240v to 12v power supply - this comes to approx £55 total and is an excellent choice. (you may need to adapt the plug on the power supply to suit the charger)

Thanks Chris

I was definatley going to use brushless and am following those starting tips you gave me earlier. they're a god send!

Just remember to have a lot of fun mate, thats what it is about ;)

woo, just managed to pick up a used tamiya df03 dark impact with hop ups for £55. Think it would be ok to race?