No offense, but a 4-lap lead? :confused:
That sounds like one of those three car races, against a blind kid and a one-armed man.

lol a win is a win

lol to funny. there were 5 cars racing with me. I got some good info on carpet setup here on oople. thanks all. All the people I race with are using offroad dirt setups not carpet. They thought I was crazy running the tires I run and the setup I run. They are all reading rctech, which is great for dirt racing but carpet and astro racing oople is the way to go.

OK, carpet and dirt setups are way different, but you just made it sound like the gear diff made all the difference. :lol:

nope. I was faster with the gear diff compared to ball diff. I just felt better on our track. Dirt def would be ball diff thou. I beat the blind guy with the one armed mans arm

So then on astro what is Considerd the best tyre set up front and back ?

Servo Horns
 

Hello,

I was wondering, I have 2 Losi 22's and I use Spectrum Servos on both, I've also got 2 spare servo horn sets. Turns out the servo saver in these cars is for these to strip. I only need the 23t servo horns. Does anyone want to swap any other size for the 23t servos horns they have? Figured if you use 25t I could do with your 23t ones and you could use my 25t ones. I have up to 4 of size to swap.

PM me if you're interested.

Tristan

I've never heard of that, I've used the plastic ones since the car came out and never stripped one (knock on wood) - but, if it's an issue, just get the alloy ones and be done with it.

Well the idea of the plastic one is that the servo doesn't get damaged, I would rather a plastic one stripped every 6 months (baring in mind I do have a tendency to bump into walls fairly frequently) then I had to replace the gear box in my servo. It's not an expensive bit, but just seems pointless to have ones I can't use sat in my spares box.

Tristan

Sorry, but it's one thing to expect a servo "saver" to help protect a servo,
but something else entirely to think a plastic horn will strip before it kills a servo.

I'm guessing you are a no for this scheme then, maybe someone else is interested, before you knock this idea down.

I do have a stripped servo horn that I've had to replace and a perfectly fine servo though. Now I wouldn't like to make an assumption but......

I do agree that servo savers are about as much use as a chocolate teapot, but having a cheap weak point in a system that isn't the expensive bit is a fairly standard practise. I run a high torque servo that was a serious investment.

Tristan

Aircraft Design and Maintenance Engineer!!!!

Hi guys I am looking for some advice on the shock oil I should use. I race in high grip carpet and the springs in my 22 are red (front) and white (rear) I am racing in rear motor configuration. If anyone could give me some lights I would appreciate.

If you're running on a high bite surface, you may find your spring combination is a little soft so in addition to oils, you may want to up your spring rates to possibly a silver front and a yellow (maybe pink) rear.
With the kit pistons, my starting point would be 55s and a 30wt front and 27.5wt rear - with silver front springs and yellow rears.

Depending on traction and temperatures, you might want to up the oils 2.5-5wt.

HTH

TeamSR
 

TeamSR Losi TLR22T carbon fiber front and rear shock towers now available by teamsr.co

http://www.teamsr.co/cart2/asp/image...e/TSR124_L.jpg
http://www.teamsr.co/cart2/asp/image...e/TSR123_L.jpg

TeamSR announces it's new aesthetically pleasing and functional option part for the Team Losi 22 Truck in a stylish 4mm thick carbon fiber rear shock tower.* This is not your standard tower you might have found or seen in the past.* This particular item is manufactured from true quasi-isotropic chassis grade carbon fiber and comes with pre-glued wet look edges; recessed holes for the stock 1/10th body mounts along with the needed hardware to ensure your tower is complete.* This tower is a direct replacement of the stock composite tower and is intended for the use with the TLR 22T only.* Look for the aftermarket front carbon fiber shock tower from TeamSR to give you a matching set.

High-Quality and a very durable 4mm thick Quasi-Isotropic Carbon Fiber Shock tower.* Anodized and Machined 70/75 Aircraft Aluminum with TeamSR Logo engraved.

Includes:

1. Thick 4mm and TRUE Quasi-Isotropic Carbon Fiber Shock Tower.

2. Machined Anodized 70/75 Aircraft Aluminum Rear Tower Assembly.

3. Black Oxodized Steel washers for the shock mounts, Qty. 2.

4. Steel Button Head Screws for attaching the graphite tower to the assmembly.

Adding weight - what is it all about!?
 

I used to race Losi XX and XXX 2WD buggies many years ago, back then we always tried to make our buggies as light as possible. Just like any real race car, really.

Nowadays, as in this thread, I am reading a lot about the benefits of adding weight to many different parts of the 22 (or other buggies if you like).

I do not get this. It is something I would like to challenge, mainly from a physics point of view, and I am happy to discuss and hear your opinion.

IMHO, the only benefit of adding weight to a race car is to slightly improve a poor setup, but never to the point where it actually becomes as good as a good setup that is not using any weight.

An example: Adding weight helps to keep the car planted on bumpy surfaces. Ok, but why not soften the suspension so a lighter car absorbs them equally well or even better without weights AND accelerates/brakes faster?

Another one: The car has more rear traction and accelerates better if I add weight at the back. Ok, but why not go with a milder motor/ESC setup instead and achieve a more balanced performance in the turns (e.g. less understeer with no weight at the back)?

You see what I am trying to say.

Can anyone explain from a physics point of view the benefits of adding (unnecessary) weight?

As I said, in my opinion a better setup (shocks, roll center, etc.) should always work better than adding dumb blocks of brass.

Happy to get some fresh ideas on this! :confused:

Back in the Losi XX and XXX days we were running with no way near the power the brushless systems give these days.

More power changes whole handling physics, especially on an offroad vehicle so weight is needed to counter act the changes.

Back in the XX XXX days in UK we were mainly racing on grass too, which has a lot larger drag factor on transmissions and speed compared to modern day astro tracks with lots more grip.

You can design the perfect balanced chassis for rollcentre and C of G but if the front wheels are in the air everytime you hit the throttle then it won't make a difference to handling unless wheels are firmly on ground!

This question has been asked and debated many many times in numerous threads!

There seems to be a number of reasons why adding weight works, here's just a few:

1) Until recently, most buggies were designed in the pre-Lipo days. Nimh's were heavier so the easiest way for people to get up to speed with Lipo was to add weight so the overall weight was about the same. When doing this, you could also alter the weight bias. This is similar in principle to how people used to move batteries backward or forwards on the chassis.

2) The cars are so much more powerful now than in the XX-era; a heavier car tends to accelerate smoother and handle the bumpy stuff better.

3) At regional and national level, practice time is usually very limited so it is easier/quicker to add/remove weight to dial the car in than try and fine tune the suspension in that limited practice time.

Adding weight just works! Spark up a conversation with Tony "Rudebits" Evdoka if you need convincing further :woot:

It's a fair point you raise - and one that sees both sides firmly entrenched in their own camps of ideas...

one the one hand, I can't help but think that the late great Colin Chapman would be turning in his grave at the thought of adding weight to make a race car more controllable.

But...

There's no denying that it works!

My own view on this is three fold.

1) As /tobys says - practice time at our UK national events is very limited and so people tend to stick with what they know and making quick(ish) changes to gain a setup that is workable from.

2) By and large, the tyres that we are all using (that characterize the grip probably more than anything else) were designed at a time when the cars ran at a weight of near 1700g - so perhaps the tyre works best at that weight???

3) Although I'm no dynamics or physics expert, adding weight to slow the reaction of the car down is something I can comprehend. Cars have become so powerful as we all know that just hanging on to them has become of critical importance here in the UK. Having a car that is ultra reactive may just be too difficult for most people to hang on to. Adding weight can slow down the reactiveness of a car which then makes it more controllable - similar to how you say that a slower motor may do but without losing out in straight line speed or punch to take a short run at a set of doubles etc.

In my own experience, everytime I've run a car near 1500g in 2WD, it is mega quick on a single lap but I can't hang on to it for 5 minutes. My reactions are simply not up to the task. I find myself adding weight as the grip comes up to make my car easier to drive (i.e. slower reacting). When the grip is lower, I find I can run less weight...

I'm not saying it's right or wrong - ultimately you create a setup that works for you based on tuning the myriad of variables at your disposal. Some people may prioritise weight over something else - but if the net result is improved lap times then is it wrong? I've tried to objectively test and I'm happy with the results and conclusions I'm drawing from it. Thus it gets logged in my databank of 'what to do when it's not quite working' - which is unique to me based on my driving style and my experiences. I suspect your databank is similarly unique based on your experiences.

Well, although owning the car from the very first days it came out, I only finally tried the LRC block last night...
Wow, the car's a different animal with that on. It was sketchy as hell and I fought it most he way round a lap, and the jumping, well, if you were not 100% dead straight on the jump, god help you, it went in all directions!
So, I put the HRC block back on and boy, what a smooth beast we had now. Felt so much better through pretty much all the lap.
The shocking part... I was Slower! So, the first time I ever use a LRC block and I'm immediately quicker... I think I need to re-think a few things and do some testing.

:D

Thanks guys for the feedback on adding "dumb" weight.

I still think I am more with the great Colin Chapman :D

What is true is that the cars have a lot more power now than back then. Perhaps with the introduction and evolution of brushless systems we should have scaled down to 380 size brushless motors, maintaining about 200 Watts, and even smaller and lighter LiPos (2,0 - 2,5 Ah) in our 1/10th scale buggies. Imagine the slim chassis designs that would be possible!

I also like the tire theory, i.e. pressure per surface area, etc.

What was mentioned above, that a heavy car handles bumps better than a lighter car, can just not be true. It may be that our shock setups are to hard, shock friction too high, or the suspension (arms, etc.) too heavy, but a heavy car at least in theory is never better through bumps than a light car.

Anyway, in the end its about consistently fast lap times. I will continue to try and achieve them without adding any weight, but hey, if this does not work on a given day or given track, I might as well throw in some.

May Mr. Chapman forgive me! :woot:

The physics of full size cars do not relate entirely to model versions...

a 1/10th buggy scaled up by 10 would have 22" wheels, 12cm bore shocks that were over a metre long, weigh around 16kg and be capable of 500 mph+

i understand entirely where you are coming from, have done a motorsport engineering degree so can relate to all principals but facts are that adding weight in certain conditions improves consistancy.... when i came back to the hobby it was a surprise to see brass being used when years ago we were making everything lighter for speed.

back in XX XXX days we were also very limited with run time and punch from batteries, modern technology means that power and runtime are no longer any issue, so running a heavier car is not a is advantage i it suits driving style.

I've found that running weight and tapered pistons makes the car a lot more consistant and smoother on bumpy tracks... if the car/wheel is in the air from little bumps then there is no power going to ground and technically you are not 100% in control of vehicle.

we use spike tyres, push the spikes into the ground and you have more grip, trying to use suspension to do this will also push car up into air.

circuit car principals do not apply to off-road vehicles either... Colin Chapman never designed a championship winning rally car?!

You're right with the wheels and the shocks. The weight would be 1600kg as that is related to the volume of the car. And speed is speed, regardless of the size of the vehicle - the world is still the same size.

:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:

I can remember WAY back in the days of some of us first trying to build mid-motor cars, and they generally didn't work because SO much weight was forward in the chassis (because of the heavy NiCAD battery pack) we had no real choice in adding weight, or even being able to move it at all to be able to fine tune weight distribution. And it was only vaguely becoming possible as the wheelbase of cars lengthened.

Now with LiPO batts, them weighing roughly 30% of the NiMH packs they replaced, we have weight we can play around with and move. In the past we really didn't have the option of losing weight, because the battery was the heaviest item in the car, but now that not being the case we're still dealing with cars (in basic principal/design) and wheels and tires and suspension bits that were designed around the same design parameters used 20 years ago.

So, from purely a physics point of view, we're not randomly adding weight - or plunking a brick in the middle of the car, we're (if we're doing it right) incrementally adding bits of weight here and there to fine tune the handling characteristics of the car. But, if you want to look at the barebones physics in the 1:1 world - look at it like a vehicle traveling down an icy patch of road, what's going to get better traction instead of sliding wildly, a light car or a heavy car?

Technically, 380 size motors and slimmer and lighter chassis would probably be the way to go instead of adding ever more power and weight to compensate for this additional power.

But I can see Mr. R.C. Hillbilly arriving at the local track and laughing his head off looking at those "tiny motors"; so 380 is probably not going to happen... (back to Grasshopper days it would be!).

My losi 22 is bit slow into entry / exit. it doesnt really understeer unless i pushed it too hard.

I am using savox 1251 with 150% travel on my DX2s

my setup is

Front Suspension
Toe: 0'
Ride Height: wishbones level
Camber: 1'
Castor:10'
Kick Angle: 25'
Oil: kit
Piston: 4 hole #55 pistons
Spring: red kit
Spindle Type: kit
Shock Limiters: 0mm
Shock Location: 2-middle
Bump Steer: 0mm
Camber Link: 0mm washers on tower, 0mm washers on hub
2mm spacer in front of castor.

Rear Suspension
Chassis Configuration: mid
Toe: 4'
Anti Squat: 1'
Roll Center: LRC
Ride Height: Driveshafts Level
Camber: -1'
Wheel Base: Medium
Oil: kit
Piston: #55
Spring: Yellow

Camber Link: 1-B (0mm under tower ball stud and 1mm under hub ballstud)
Shock Locations: 2-inside


50gram tlr rear weight.

Front tyres: staggers rib.
Rear Tyres: yellow mini pin - schumacher foam

I just purchased 0 degrees castor block, hopefully that helps.

It is not sharp like i seen like those asnmann X2C and others.

Anyone know how to get hold of bllomfields latest set ups ?? Seems set ups have stopped cumin through or have they jus not changed much??

Are you after anything specific set up wise (indoors/outdoors)? I will see if I can get some set ups out of him this week :)

A set up for Silverstone will be good :)

thanks

Nothing in particular tbh jus sometimes when top drivers change small things that small thing myt benefit us mortals lol

Cing how set up needs to change for varing conditions is interesting reading

Myt jus b me being anal as im determined not to change my 22 i love it, dont like to follow trends

Mainly astro during summer one wet one dry, then indoor one carpet one slippy are 4 surfaces i race on

I wrote a TLR 22 Parts Guide today! Please give me feedback if you read it, and corrections!

http://martinsorlie.blogspot.no/2012...seful-and.html

Nicely thought out Martin,

I guess your customers should think themselves very lucky:thumbsup:

As with writing anything - you lay yourself open for people to critique and argue for what they believe in but that's not the point - each of us will have personal preferences and recommendations - but what you've done is to put it out there with good explanations from your point of view - good work.

great work Martin
now i can give the people a link if they want to know what to buy for the 22
thanks
joey

Thank you! :)

I really hope this guide can help racers, but I wrote it just as much as a help for myself. Writing about it really helped me remember the up and downs of each part and mod:-) And I really hope people will comment, and of course point out and criticize if I wrote something they truly disagree with.

By writing this blogpost I did in a way go out on a limb, since selling aftermarket stuff and options is part of what pays my salary, but I really do want my customers to be loyal cause of my honesty, not my ability as a salesman.

Another side of this is that I'm a racer, improving my results every raceweekend, and with the will to offer an arm and a leg to be a team driver, so writing bad stuff about the brand I race and sell is usually not a good thing. But again, I'd rather sell and represent TLR because people see me as an honest, helpful racer, and I really do try to be just that! :-)

My thoughts exactly ............. especially the "Not So Useful Options."

Oftentimes it seems people are out to buy every single doo-dad and whatnot, replacing parts at will, just because they're out there, and then complain about the cost of all those parts ..... when in reality (kind of like people asking for set-ups constantly) I tend to tell people "If you're not making a change for good reason, then I don't see the point in doing it."

A kind of agree with you Robby - but with a slight caveat...

A Good Reason for one person may not be a good reason for someone else. As they say - one man's liquor is another man's poison.

If it makes someone happy to fit options to their car because they enjoy doing it, does it make it wrong?

Options can be fitted to alter geometry, increase strength or improve ease of maintenance. They can also be fitted for the reason that they look good.

All are valid reasons.

I do agree with you though that buying everything and then becoming upset that you've spent your money is perhaps ill-thought out to begin with but if someone enjoys buying options for their car simply because they can - or because they are there, then their enjoyment alone is a good enough reason for them to be right in their decision making IMO.

*Updated earlier post^^*

I recently built a 22 with every option part available to me. It did cost me more than twice of the kits original price.

Most importantly, it was shiny! And I did get 13th place at the Ooplerace and best TLR, so the options weren't useless. But I do doubt I needed all of them. Apart from that they were shiny. I do like shiny. And it blinds the competition:-P

Now I run my car with the options in my guide, lighter, more flexible and cheaper to repair;-)

It does if they come back later and complain about the cost of said parts, or wonder why it didn't turn them suddenly into world championship material on the track. ;)

Hi all

Here is Darren's finishing set up from the EOS at the weekend. Dustin and Darren worked together at the EOS on this set up, so it is different to his last set up and admits he needs to try it on Schumacher pins to evaluate it in comparison to where he finished at the end of the last indoor season.

HTH

Chris

Thats awesome cheers defo gona get some 4mm's on order

uh oh, I've been out blogging again... It's about the two-hole pistons everyone is blogging about these days, and my way of making them:)

http://martinsorlie.blogspot.no/2012...e-pistons.html